Model 1067 differntial lost limited slip feature

[tombr77 5]

my 1067 tractor has a tough time plowing snow since the limited slip wore out. I'd like to rebuild - any manuals/ instructions available ?  anyone have tips - and are parts i may need to replace available?

[Aldon 4,826]

There is a large "C" shaped spring inside the diff that is your likely culprit. 

 

Not sure if there is a manual available.

 

Tedious. But pretty obvious how the diff goes together once you get it apart. But I have not yet tried to re-install with that tensioned C spring. I imagine it will take some ingenuity.

[tombr77 5]

Yes, thanks.  i had asked about this a couple years ago and Stevasourous posted a video of assembly -- after posting this i figured out how to find my old post and re watched the video !   So  i think you are right - the C spring is the likely suspect -- so does anyone know if replacements are available? would be nice to know before i open it up. i have the owners manual,  the specific manual for this would be for the 5060 transaxle.  Before it wore out i could plow snow uphill.  Now any wet  incline is a problem, even not pushing snow.

[squonk 41,051]

I'm not sure but I think that spring is NLA. Maybe find another transmission? 

 

[pfrederi 17,700]

Spring is 7235   NLA

 

Spring could be broken or just tired.You might have to buy more than one transaxle before you find one with a good spring

 

Your 1076 is now just like most other wheel horses (B/ C series 400/500) with an open differential.  Can still plow just needs more weight and chains (still will not in my opinion be as good as a functioning Limited slip but it will work)

 

 

This is why my Chargers and Electros with the ltd slip differential are only used in the winter for plowing/blowing...trying to make that spring last as long as I can!!

Edited January 7, 2017 by pfrederi

[WHX?? 48,813]

There was a thread here where a member did make one. I just had my 1067 ten pinion  apart for all new seals & bearings and did inspect the spring which looked really good and it seemed like it would be simple to make.

[pfrederi 17,700]

20 minutes ago, WHX9 said:

There was a thread here where a member did make one. I just had my 1067 ten pinion  apart for all new seals & bearings and did inspect the spring which looked really good and it seemed like it would be simple to make.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/50926-7235-spring-mastered/#comment-467621

[WHX?? 48,813]

Thanks for finding that Paul, my search/copy/paste skills are limited on this tablet!😊

[stevasaurus 22,713]

Try contacting @racinfool40 (Mike)...I'll bet he has an extra spring.  Send him a PM or find him on Facebook Wheelhorse Junkies. 

 

BTW...if the spring was broke, you would know it.  My 5060 thread is located in the "Reference" section Transmissions subtitle.

[formariz 11,987]

56 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Try contacting @racinfool40 (Mike)...I'll bet he has an extra spring.  Send him a PM or find him on Facebook Wheelhorse Junkies. 

 

BTW...if the spring was broke, you would know it.  My 5060 thread is located in the "Reference" section Transmissions subtitle.

The same may be happening with my Electro 12. How would you know if spring has broken? Is it a catastrophic event? If not what are the signs?

[tombr77 5]

Yes, thanks.  i had asked about this a couple years ago and Stevasourous posted a video of assembly -- after posting this i figured out how to find my old post and re watched the video !   So  i think you are right - the C spring is the likely suspect -- so does anyone know if replacements are available? would be nice to know before i open it up. i have the owners manual,  the specific manual for this would be for the 5060 transaxle.  Before it wore out i could plow snow uphill.  Now any wet  incline is a problem, even not pushing snow.

You guys & this forum are great,   I just came in from plowing about 6-8 inches of the white stuff ,She works OK on flat and very mild inclines - i have weights , and a bucket of sand in a box on back of tractor! ( an i lean way back on back edge of seat!)  but the hills are a no go.  I am intrigued by making one -  ive made little coil springs, and i have my Dads old Atlas lathe...I also PM'ed as suggested to see if one is available.    i dont want to disassemble it while its working if im not sure i will have a new C spring. !

[stevasaurus 22,713]

Cas, if that spring breaks apart, you would have a whole differential full of little gears screaming to get out of the way!!!  That spring holds those pinion gears in place. 

   Tom, if Mike does not have one, you may have to open yours up to get the dimensions.  Do some more searching on this site.  I seem to remember a thread, maybe around 2009 or 2010, where we talked about this and maybe some dimensions were given in that thread.  I think TT (moderator) was involved at the time.    Note that the spring is bent in at the split so as not to catch on one of the pinions.

    You know, a bad axle gear will do the same thing as a worn out spring.

 

I think you are going to have to open this and see what is wrong 1st.  If you don't hear any bad noises while running the horse, maybe wait until spring??  If something like this is going on, you could do much more damage.

[formariz 11,987]

Let me see if I understand this correct. Looking at photos of the other post where he made a new spring, the old spring shows "rub" marks. I assume this is from the pinions rubbing against it. It is then this spring that keeps tension against pinions preventing them from turning and causing both axles to turn instead of just one? So the "rub" marks are wear that eventually causes spring not to exert enough pressure on pinions?

[tombr77 5]

Yes, plan to wait till spring   . sounds fine- so i  dont expect to find broken parts.  i was hoping the guy that made his own spring had dimensions.  You think a bad axle gear would cause loss of limited slip ( without other symptoms  like noise)?  That gear you have there needs a good dentist....

formariz -- i was thinking the same thing - but those 'rub' marks dont looks very deep at all...may he made a new spring, and the  'old' one hadnt failed yet? 

[stevasaurus 22,713]

This picture is from one of TT's threads of old.  This is a good picture of the spring and the pinions.  The spring is supposed to put enough pressure on the pinions to lock the trans if going in a straight line or stuck...and still offer what a differential does if not going in a straight line. 

 

That old post talked about not even having that spring in there if it was broke, but the spring also acts as a spacer between the 2 axle gears so they do not move in on each other.

    Yes a toothless axle gear is not going to turn any pinions, so in effect the limited slip would not work.

Edited January 7, 2017 by stevasaurus

[tombr77 5]

looking at this picture, the 'wear' marks on the "old" spring in the pix were he made a new spring should extend to the edge of the spring - right? the two sets of pinion gears 'overlap
' on the spring - so every other set of marks should extend off the opposite side.... so now i am not sure about those marks....

[formariz 11,987]

10 minutes ago, tombr77 said:

looking at this picture, the 'wear' marks on the "old" spring in the pix were he made a new spring should extend to the edge of the spring - right? the two sets of pinion gears 'overlap
' on the spring - so every other set of marks should extend off the opposite side.... so now i am not sure about those marks....

 

I noticed that too. Its almost like that spring is not actually flat but a little convex, therefor only having contact in the center area. Assuming nothing else is wrong such as broken gears which would probably  have a very obvious sound would this spring be the main cause of limited slip not working??????

[tombr77 5]

Take a closer look at the picture -- i dont know what the marks we are discussing are - BUT there are 'worn' spots - narrow channels between the other marks we were talking about - in the third picture down you can see two of them running off the left of spring - one at top, one facing front. And you can just make on one in between those two, running off the right side. 

[formariz 11,987]

I see them.They are rather deep.  Those seem to be made by the actual tooth of the pinion gear. Does that mean that spring  or gears move up and down against each other  also? I really want to understand how this whole thing works!!!

[tombr77 5]

thats the place where the 'top' of the pinion teeth rub on the spring as they( the pinion gears) spin when needed for 'slip' behavior during turns.  as it wears, there is less pressure, so less 'limited slip' when needed.  So i'm thinking that if you re installed the C ring with the grooves elsewhere it would work again.   At least until the C  ring spun to where the teeth nestled into the existing grooves and youre back with a non working condition.
'

[formariz 11,987]

 

Check this out. Explains it a bit more.

 

Edited January 8, 2017 by formariz

[953 nut 55,163]

On 1/6/2017 at 8:23 PM, tombr77 said:

any wet  incline is a problem, even not pushing snow.

    Check your tire pressures, a soft tire will not want to roll and cause the other to spin.

[stevasaurus 22,713]

OK...I.m not really an expert here on limited slip differentials (disclaimer)   but if you look, the spider gears do interlock...like I said...the spring is pushing against the pinions so as to lock the trans if it is going in a straight line or stuck.  I believe that the Bold type is what is important as to how this works.  The fact that the pinions are not on posts (as in 4 and 8 pinion differentials) means that they "float" in their receptacles with a number of things keeping them in place. 

   One of the things that lets me know you have a 10 pinion limited slip differential...there is a 1" extension on the check plug just behind the axle.  That gives you an extra 1" or so of oil in the transmission.  This would assure getting more oil in to where that spring is.  The burn marks that you guys are talking about on that spring could be from just a lack of enough oil in the trans over the years.  I don't know if the limited slip transmissions came with that extension from the factory originally...or maybe it was a fix because of what you see in that spring.

    There is nothing wrong with the limited slip concept for Wheel Horses...they were never meant to be pullers....but they will handle anything they were meant to do.  One other thing...just because you have some burn marks on that spring, does not mean it is a bad spring.  Sure, if I had access to a new spring, I would replace it...but it would still function as the spacer it needs to be, and it could still be OK.  We don't know.  Hope this helps and makes scence, cents, since, etc. 

[stevasaurus 22,713]

One thing we have not mentioned here yet, and we usually do mention it...did you check your hubs to make sure they are tight on the axle and the wood ruff key is not broke??  I think it would be a good idea to take a look at that on both sides of the horse.    It just seems weird to me that you can't go up an incline all of a sudden and nothing is broke. 

[tombr77 5]

cant go up inclines with wet/snow/ slick asphalt.  i have a bucket of sand with me, and sprinkling it on spinning tire helps....i also lean over the side that is spinning