Transmission / clutch

[bploof 2]

My 1987 414-8 was blowing snow like mad. Then it started to delay engaging into gear. I would push in the clutch, shift let the clutch out & it took a few seconds to drive. I parked it when I was done, now I tried to run it & it won't move ...  ? I haven't had time to really look into it. Any help would be appreciated. ( Belt ? hoping simple ) 

Fingers crossed or I'm working on it in the snow. Nowhere to heat it up here mom wouldn't like it in the living room ... Again ... 

Thank you .

Edited December 23, 2016 by bploof
More info.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,102]

Could be the belt or the idler pulley starting to seize up.

 

There is a Woodruff key in the transmission input shaft and driven pulley.

There are Woodruff keys in the end of each axle and wheel hub.

If any one of the three fail you end up with a no-drive condition. In other words the shaft is spinning inside the hub.

 

Be careful checking the hubs. The keys can catch and the tractor will take off. Start it up and put into gear and watch the ends of the shafts to see if they are spinning without the hub. You should be able to see the axle between the back of the hub and the axle housing from the rear if the hub is not too close to the case. If it is remove the hub caps or wheel weights so you can see the ends of the axles.

 

Garry

 

 

[oldlineman 1,482]

There is a clutch hyd. damper that might be hanging up because of cold temps.,frozen snow ice on it or other problem with it. If you have a heated space to put tractor in that might help if that is the problem. All of the above will cause the same problem good luck. I can't find a picture or part # someone might have that info. I believe part # is 108035 very pricey but can be had used.It seems that some had a spring and some had a hyd. damper, mine has the damper, I bought a used one a while back for a spare.

Edited December 23, 2016 by oldlineman

[Racinbob 11,234]

You didn't say what year your 414 is. Wheel Horse had three methods. First, it was just a spring. The part #108035 is the spring used for years. The second method was a strut with no spring. The strut was similar to those used on hatchbacks and the like. It pushed the idler arm rather than pulling it. Then they had a damper used in conjunction with the spring #108035. The damper eased the engagement. That's what I had on my 2005. I hated the delay and simply removed the damper. You could do the same and 'convert' the setup to what was used for many years and worked great. If you have a spring on the left side you'll find the damper on the right side. If you don't have a spring they are still available and under $10. Buy one, install it and remove the strut on the right side under the belt guard.

[wallfish 17,083]

If you pull the pedal back with your toe and it engages, your issue is with the belt tension somewhere, the belt itself or both. Most likely that damper, strut or spring.

A little investigation will reveal the issue. Pulling the pedal back with your toe may get you by until a nice warm day to work on it.

[Duff 206]

Good suggestions above. My bet is you've got a drive belt getting ready to snap - probably stretched out to the limit where the tensioner can't get enough pressure on it to make it engage. I've had this happen - the clutch pedal had normal travel but the tractor at first was slow to take off, then it would stall (not the engine, just forward motion) on hills, and finally simply wouldn't move at all. When I pulled off the belt cover it was cracked and partially shredded. A new belt and it ran like a champ! Good luck, and Merry Christmas!   

[bploof 2]

Well just got to look @ it, not for long. Clutch side seems to be rotating @ speed belt looks good from what I can see, it's not that old.Break side just skipping...? Is there a shear pin on the clutch side ? I tried to see the adjuster ran out of time & the manual has no good photos for adjustment. 

Ugh ! Storm coming & I'm sick-er. Family won't let me outside. I escaped long enough to fire it up & look underneath . Grinds gear without the clutch ( hit the shift by accident )

I didn't have time to pull tires, but I don't see the shaft turning with the 1/8" of space there. I stuck a shim in to feel it move nothing . Transmission is all I can think.

Hope to feel gooder tomorrow on the meds now snow not supposed to start until noon-ish. 

[bploof 2]

Hello again .

How do I get more responses ... ? Do I have to start another topic... ?

It has warmed up & I tried to check & see if the axles are spinning they aren't. The drive side is turning & so is the break side but the wheels / transmission isn't engaging.

It will shift into gears with minimal grind with the clutch engaged...? oil leaking out of the right rear . & I took pictures of that & the color of the gear oil on the stick

Thank you for your help & if anyone reads this let me know if I need to open a new topic for a response.

I have a feeling it's not good for the 414-8

 

[Digger 66 3,488]

20 minutes ago, bploof said:

I tried to check & see if the axles are spinning they aren't.

The drive side is turning & so is the brake side but the wheels / transmission isn't engaging.

 

If the axles aren't turning , what on the drive / brake side IS turning ?

I'm confused by your description 

[lynnmor 7,354]

I think he means that the input shaft and the brake drum are spinning and the axles are not.  If he tried playing with the shifters, moving them in any and all positions, then it is time to open up the transmission.

[JAinVA 4,623]

Just an opinion but I have rarely seen that much oil dripping from a transaxle.Generous amount running down the right rear wheel and what seems to be a large leak  around the brake drum seal.If it has not been kept full or at least at a reasonable level you may have some serious internal damage.By the looks of that oil you have water in the transaxle and if contaminated enough you have almost no lubricating properties. As stated by others there are three external keys that  could cause a no drive condition.The transmission input pully which gets power from the engine.The other two keys are one each in the wheel hubs  One way to check the hub keys( if you can see the ends of the axles) is to start the tractor in First gear LOW range and see if the axle is spinning in the hub.Just be careful to not get run over or the tractor running away.Low range will make sure things happen slowly but still use caution. ,JAinVA

Edited January 14, 2017 by JAinVA

[Digger 66 3,488]

29 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

  If he tried playing with the shifters, moving them in any and all positions, then it is time to open up the transmission.

 

20 minutes ago, JAinVA said:

Just an opinion but I have rarely seen that much oil dripping from a transaxle.Generous amount running down the right rear wheel and what seems to be a large leak  around the brake drum seal.If it has not been kept full or at least at a reasonable level you may have some serious internal damage.By the looks of that oil you have water in the transaxle and if contaminated enough you have almost lubricating properties. JMHO,JAinVA

 

 

Yes  & Yes 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,102]

Wonder if the hi-low shifter is in between the 2 gears? Try to shift it one way or the other. They don't have a real strong detent so hard to tell when they are engaged far enough.

 

Garry

[bploof 2]

Hi All , Happy 2018

New question.

I just came across a newer 312-8 (not sure the yr 99 maybe ? .). It has the same # on the rear end case, smaller wheels.

I was wondering if anyone knows if I can swap the 312-8 & put it on the 414-8 ... ?

Then perhaps try to rebuild the transmission & the 312-8. It's in ruff shape,but I was told it runs ... ? Free stuff YEAH !

Thank you,

bploof

[pfrederi 17,887]

Should be an easy swap

[953 nut 55,839]

           Your 312-8 is a 1990 and the trans axle should bolt up directly. The 312 will probably have one inch axles and your 414 may have the 1 1/8" inch axles, but that won't be a prob;em.

[bploof 2]

Thank you for you responses .

How about a manual / instructions ... ?

Red Square's Great !

[953 nut 55,839]

1 hour ago, bploof said:

Thank you for you responses .

How about a manual / instructions ... ?

Red Square's Great !

This manual will cover the trans from the 312-8

This manual is probably the one for your 1987 414-8 presuming it has 1 1/8" axles

This thread will help you with the rebuild.

 

[bploof 2]

Thank you so much Good luck to me .

[bploof 2]

Hi, again.

The DL for the 414-8 is not in the manual list  ... ? Not sure it that matters ... ?

Is there a place I should start ? / Easier then taking it all apart... ?

Thank you

b

Edited January 23, 2018 by bploof
write more.

[953 nut 55,839]

This manual will provide a lot of information about your  including exploded views of most parts. Remove the mower deck as it will get in the way.

To remove the transaxle you will begin with a thorough cleaning under the seat pan so junk won't get into the trans. pull the seat pan/fender assembly, shift knobs, shifter plate running boards and gas tank. Take off the side panels and disconnect the clutch and brake rods. Now you should be able to jack the frame up and remove the four bolts that attach the transaxle and role it out.