C-160 Auto

[Searcher60 208]

Hello everybody, and thanks in advance. Looking for some feedback on a C-160 Auto that I am looking at buying, and wanted some feed back on what they are bringing these days. 

 

First off, it has sat for many years without running, at least 10. It will however turn over with a battery. Body work is ok, not rusted to badly. Comes with both a 42" side and a 42" rear discharge deck. A rear mounted plow, and what looks like a rear mounted push blade. Never seen the rear mounted type blade before. Not sure it works, but hour meter shows 660.

 

I guess there here is quite a bit of risk that the engine and/or trans will need total rebuilds? What should I pay? Again, thanks.

[953 nut 54,147]

10 minutes ago, Searcher60 said:

what looks like a rear mounted push blade

Perhaps it is a mid-mount blade. If you were buying the two decks, blade and plow you could expect to pay $600 or more so I would start the bargaining at $ 500 and be willing to go up a few hundred from there.

[Adams94 1,067]

Yea I would think 400-600 at the top since you have no guarantee.  I bought one this summer, c160 auto with 42" deck, front blade, tire chains and a cheaper lowes lawn cart for 600. Runs good but is tired and will probably rebuild the engine this winter

[Searcher60 208]

What do you figure it will cost you to rebuild the engine, and do it right? Your trans have any issues? 

[BOB ELLISON 2,980]

There really tough machines . The one I got was sitting open in the elements for a long time but I Cleaned fuel tank, lines and carb.changed oil,trans oil and filter before I tried to start it. Also pulled head to see if piston and valves needed cleaning. Run like a top. The c160 is tops in my Hurd.

Pictures would really help to determine  value.

 

[cschannuth 3,815]

My dad quit cutting his own grass in 2007 and parked his Briggs twin 161 in his basement. It sat there until I pulled it out this spring. A tune up, fresh gas,  an oil change, and a new battery and it fired right up. I've been using it ever since with no issues so you never know. 

[Ed Kennell 37,280]

I paid $150 for a running C-160 auto a few years back.  I eventually had to replace the Sundstrand Hydro though.

   Just bought a non-running C-160 8 speed for $100 and had it running in an hour, but it smokes bad. 

Neither of these had any implements.   

      With any non runner, you have to be concerned that it may have been parked due to a bad hydro.

If the two decks are not rusted beyond repair and the spindles are good, they are worth $150-$250 each. Not sure what plows you have, but probably at least $100 each.

So $5-600 sounds fair to me.

These C-160s are worth saving.

The $150 auto after the redo.

 

The $100 8 speed as bought.

 

[oliver2-44 9,352]

The Hydro transmissions are tough but if not previously taken care of can be the death of a horse.  The transmission dipstick does not reach the bottom so it really doesn't always give a good indication of the trannys past maintenance life  Here's an inspection trick for a non running hydro. Take a roughly 3/4 " wide 12" or longer piece of white or light colored cloth and hook it to the end of a coat hanger  Run the wire down and just touch the bottom of the transmission to see how deep the slugs is in it. Perfectly clean would be wonderful but You can expect to have some black sludge (1/4")  is  very good but an 1" or more of black on the cloth should  be a concern or at least used to negotiation price down significantly  

PS this is the same way you check the sludge depth in a septic tank 😜

[ohiofarmer 3,249]

Love that dipstick trick. I know that this is not the engine section, but i am also searching for an engine rebuild video to decide just what procedures are needed to freshen up a running engine that may or may not need a total rebuild.. I have a Kohler 12 that makes a little noise once it warms up.....

[953 nut 54,147]

11 hours ago, ohiofarmer said:

Love that dipstick trick. I know that this is not the engine section, but i am also searching for an engine rebuild video to decide just what procedures are needed to freshen up a running engine that may or may not need a total rebuild.. I have a Kohler 12 that makes a little noise once it warms up.....

@prondzy did a great engine thread early this year, take a look.

 

[Searcher60 208]

Ok, it's mine. Cleaning fuel tank and replacing lines. Removed and took carb apart. Looks like carb would be better off replaced with a new one. Will check fuel pump tomorrow. Throttle shaft is worn, is real loose. Chinese carbs on eBay ok? Thanks.

[Ed Kennell 37,280]

You got a jewel there....she looks great.    Good straight tin, good patina, and decals.   Clean her up as is.

Ebay carbs work., but the carters carbs can be rebuilt. There are many posts on here on installing a bushing to tighten the throttle shaft.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Ed Kennell

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Yep!  Clean it!  Paint nothing.  Find an appropriate seat.  

[Searcher60 208]

Can somebody tell me how to find the K-341S throttle shaft bushing installation thread using the search engine? I cannot find it.  How can I tell if the compression release is working? What will the compression be if the release is working? Thanks, and I appreciate all the help and support!

[953 nut 54,147]

Brian Miller's site is full of information you can use.

http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/index.htm

This is info specific to the shaft bushing, but you will find lots of other great info on the web site.

 

      Carburetor throttle shaft bushing from Brian Miller

A worn throttle shaft is the #1 cause of most engines wearing out and burning oil prematurely. If a carburetor has a worn throttle shaft, this will create a vacuum leak and the engine will idle poorly, if at all at times. Not to mention the engine will also draw in dirty air, causing wear on the valve faces/seats and piston rings, and engine will burn oil. More than .010" of play is considered too much for throttle shaft wear. Plus, at operating running speeds (3,600 RPM), the extra air will cause the engine to run lean on fuel, which will overheat the combustion chamber and cause the cylinder head to warp (blow a head gasket) and the piston and rings to wear prematurely, eventually resulting in severe engine wear and excessive oil burning. Along with regular maintenance, repair of a worn throttle shaft is required to help an engine last a long time. The most accurate way to check for amount of wear is with a dial indicator. Furthermore, all Carter/Kohler and Walbro carburetors don't come with a throttle shaft bushing installed from the factory. A bushing (see below Ê) must be installed when the throttle shaft is worn and loose in the carburetor, or a bushing and a new throttle shaft both must be installed. If there's a counterbore (recession in the carburetor body) where the throttle shaft is, a short, flat bronze bushing can be installed, and if it's still in good condition, the original throttle shaft can be reused. But if there's no counterbore, the carburetor body will need to be precision aligned-bored for installation of a bronze sleeve bushing, and chances are, a new throttle shaft will also need to be installed. Special machining of the carburetor body is required for the sleeve bushing. And ALL Carter and Kohler #26, #28 and #30, and the older Walbro #52, #60 and #64 carburetors have the counterbore. Only the newer Walbro #52, #60 and #64 carburetors don't have the counterbore. If the carburetor has the counterbore, the throttle shaft will need to be removed, the dirt and debris will need to be cleaned out from the counterbore, and then the short, flat bushing can be installed. But if there's no counterbore, the upper hole in the carburetor body will need to be bored out in precision alignment with the lower hole in a milling machine, and then a bronze sleeve bushing can be installed. Return To Previous Paragraph

Bronze Throttle Shaft Bushing for Carter #16, #18, #20, #22 carburetors with a counterbore that's used on Kohler engine models K90/K91, K141, K160/K161 and K181, as well as other makes and models of engines that use the same carburetor. Dimensions: 7/32" i.d. x .407" o.d. x 1/8" height. NOTE: Apply clean motor oil  or automotive grease on throttle shaft before installing for smooth throttle operation and less wear to shaft, bushing or carburetor body. And some later Carter carburetors do not have the counterbore to accept this bushing. If there's no counterbore, then if the shaft hole is not severely worn, a new throttle shaft (see below Ê) can be installed. Go here to learn how to professionally remove Carter/Kohler throttle or choke plate retaining screws without breaking them off. But if the shaft hole is severely worn, it will need to be slightly enlarged to match a fabricated oversized throttle shaft made of mild steel. The original lever will need to be ground off the old shaft and welded onto the new shaft. I offer this service, too. (see below Ê) No Kohler part number available for this bushing. An innovative concept by Brian Miller, because nobody else advertise this part or services. High quality aftermarket. Precision-made in the USA of CNC-machined bearing bronze. $6.00 each, plus shipping and handling Installation Service: Install this throttle shaft bushing in your carburetor. $30.00 each for bushing, new screws and labor, plus return shipping and handling. Installation Service: Fabricate a slightly larger throttle shaft and install in your carburetor. $60.00 each for shaft, new screws and labor, plus return shipping and handling. Please contact me if you're interested in any of the above È repair services. Short, Flat Bronze Throttle Shaft Bushing for all Carter/Kohler #26, #28, #30 and early Walbro #52, #60, #64 carburetors with a counterbore that's used on Kohler K-series and early Magnum engine models K241/M10, K301/M12, K330/K331, K321/M14, K341/M16, K361 and KT17, KT17II, KT19, KT19II, MV16, M18, MV18, M20, MV20. If there's a [worn] rubber seal in the counterbore, this bushing will replace it. Dimensions: 1/4" i.d. x 7/16" o.d. x 1/8" height. NOTE: Apply clean motor oil  or automotive grease on throttle shaft before installing for smooth throttle operation and less wear to shaft, bushing or carburetor body. Go here to learn how to professionally remove Carter/Kohler throttle or choke plate retaining screws without breaking them off. High quality aftermarket. Precision-made in the USA of compressed sintered bronze. Very hard material. $5.00 each, plus shipping and handling. OEM Kohler part # 25 158 02-S. $10.15 each, plus shipping and handling. Installation Service: Install this throttle shaft bushing in your carburetor. $30.00 each for bushing, new screws and labor, plus return shipping and handling. Please contact me if you're interested in this repair service. An innovative concept by Brian Miller, because nobody else advertise this service. Installation Instructions: The above È bushings makes contact with the upper unworn 1/8" area on the throttle shaft. The original throttle shaft can be reused with the bushing if it isn't severely worn. To install the bushing, first of all, to avoid breaking off the OEM soft brass throttle plate screws, use a Dremel or equivalent small rotary grinder chucked with either a very small grinding stone (chainsaw sharpening stone) or an 1/8" high speed steel end mill to grind away the flared threads at the end of the screws, then the screws can be removed, and then remove the shaft from the carburetor body. Clean out the counterbore and depending on size of carburetor, place the bushing over a 3/16" or 1/4" bolt and insert the screw of bolt in the throttle shaft hole to align the bushing straight with the counterbore and use small hammer or bench vise to drive- or press-in the bushing, and then reinstall the shaft. Additional Note: Usually the short, flat bronze bushing will snug up a worn throttle shaft. With oil for lubrication and a felt or foam seal to keep out dust and dirt (available below Ê), the bushing should last a long time. If the bushing fits somewhat loose in the counterbore, lightly tap the sides of the counterbore with a hammer to make the counterbore slightly oblong or egg-shaped. The newer Walbro carburetors have no counterbore for the bushing, and sometimes the [upper] throttle shaft hole will wear. When this happens, just installing a new shaft won't fix the problem. The upper hole must be precision-align bored with the [unworn] lower hole, and a bronze sleeve bushing will need to be installed along with a new shaft. On other makes of carburetors, if the original shaft is worn and a new throttle shaft isn't available, then a new throttle shaft will need to be machined. The throttle lever can be reused and welded to the new fabricated shaft. And if necessary, a slightly oversized shaft can be installed instead of the original diameter shaft. I can do all this for $50.00± parts and labor, plus return shipping and handling. Bronze Throttle Shaft Sleeve Bushing for the newer Walbro WHG #52, #60, #64 carburetors that have no counterbore for the short throttle shaft bushing, or for the #26, #28 or #30 Carter/Kohler carburetors with a worn/enlarged counterbore for the short throttle shaft bushing. Not available from Kohler. Precision-made in the USA of compressed sintered bronze. Dimensions: 1/4" i.d. x .313" o.d. x 3/4" length. IMPORTANT NOTE: The upper throttle shaft hole must be precision-bored exactly to .3125" (5/16") in perfect center-alignment with the lower hole for installation of this sleeve bushing. The carburetor body will need to be clamped in a machine vise fastened on the table of a milling machine, aligned, and precision-drilled so the throttle shaft will rotate without binding after installation of the bushing. A drill press will not be accurate at all. If a drill press is used, the carburetor body could be ruined and rendered useless. Apply clean motor oil  or automotive grease on throttle shaft before installing for smooth throttle operation and less wear to shaft and bushing. Not to be used in the Kohler-made carburetors for Kohler engine models K482, K532 or K582. An innovative concept by Brian Miller, because nobody else advertise the use of this part or this service. Aftermarket; not available from Kohler. Precision-made in the USA of compressed sintered bronze. Very hard material. $3.00 each, plus shipping and handling. Repair Service: Bore upper throttle shaft hole, install new bronze sleeve bushing. $45.00 labor and bushing + price of new throttle shaft with new screws/lock washers (if needed), plus return shipping and handling. An innovative concept by Brian Miller, because nobody else advertise this repair service . Throttle Shaft Protective Seals. Foam seal dimensions (±): 7/32" i.d. x 7/16" o.d. x 5/32" thick. Felt seal dimensions (±): 7/32" i.d. x 3/8" o.d. x 1/8" thick. 7/32" will stretch over a 1/4" shaft. Apply clean motor oil  on seal before installing to trap and prevent dust and dirt from wearing throttle shaft and/or upper hole in carburetor body or bushing. Go here to learn how to professionally remove Carter/Kohler throttle or choke plate retaining screws without breaking them off. Return To Previous Paragraph or Section Polyurethane (Foam Rubber) Seal. Used for Carter #16, #18, #20, #22 and Walbro WHL #36, #44 carburetors, Carter/Kohler #26, #28, #30 and Walbro WHG #52, #60, #64 carburetors, and many other carburetors, such as Briggs & Stratton, Tecumseh, etc. NOTE: Seal is compressed between throttle lever and carburetor body or installed bronze bushing. OEM Walbro part #'s 156-18-8, 156-24-8 and OEM Briggs & Stratton part #'s 271853, 691321, 691869, 692279. $2.00 each, plus shipping & handling. Felt (Cloth Fiber) Seal. Used for K482, K532 and K582 carburetors. NOTE: Seal is compressed between spring-loaded washer on throttle shaft and carburetor body. OEM Briggs & Stratton part # 270167. $4.00 each, plus shipping & handling.

[Hacksawhero123 351]

Cosmetically, yours looks much nicer than mine. I just built a ripper plow to bust the hard ground so my tiller could handle it. I was amazed and pleased at the way the c160 handled dragging what is essentially an anchor. It pulls without loading up or bogging down even with the throttle at less than half speed. It's my first Wheel Horse and I'm sold on them now. 

[Searcher60 208]

Ok guys, completely  rebuilt carb, w/new shaft bushing. Filed points to get spark and cleaned plug. Removed tins and cleaned out, plus found TDC and timing mark. Marked both with white out. Removed cylinder head and cleaned. Adjusted valves, exhaust was way to tight. Check and found ACR out of adjustment. Removed cam gear cover, adjust ACR per manual. Set engine timing. Removed fuel tank and cleaned out gum. Replaced tank bushing and fuel shut off. Replaced fuel lines. Started engine, ran great! Warmed up, shut down, changed oil. Checked and found RPM's over 3800, adjusted maximum to 3570 with tachometer, and idle to 1200. Set carb fuel mixtures. Engine sounds and runs perfect. No smoke. Trans seems to be fine, will change oil and filter. Hydraulics work fine. Need to install permanent battery and take outside of garage for full operational inspection. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Searcher60

[Sarge 3,462]

C-160 = one of the most versatile WH models ever made , plenty of power , good transmission options , perfect size and a lot of brute force to be had....no wonder the market has come up on these a lot despite that less than stellar looking hood...

Sarge