Advice: Replace or Rebuild Carb for K301S?

[Ironhorse1077 21]

So, my local outdoor power equipment shop tells me that a new carb will cost nearly $400!  

 A rebuild kit from them runs $48.  

 

On Ebay I find carbs that seem the same for under $30 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Carburetor-for-K241-K301-Cast-Iron-10-HP-12-HP-Cast-Iron-Engines-26-Carb-/162217568958?hash=item25c4ebaabe:g:2tMAAOSwTA9X6Isn)

There are a range of prices with some coming from China, Hong Kong, etc......

Are they all the same?  

They don't come with the gasket from carb to engine, but that is also available for either $2.99 or $9.99().

What I don't see is a gasket for the carb to the air cleaner.  If that gasket can be found or fabricated, should I order one of these carbs from overseas?

 

[wallfish 17,492]

4 minutes ago, Ironhorse1077 said:

So, my local outdoor power equipment shop tells me that a new carb will cost nearly $400!

Ha, they probably order the Chinese clones and mark it up. That price makes it pretty clear they prefer to sell you new equipment instead of parts! Kind of makes it difficult to support your local shop huh?

I haven't used the clones for a Kohler yet but have used the tecumseh versions with no complaints. The Chinese just rip off everybody's stuff with absolutely no regard to any patent rights and reproduce them. Can't really go wrong for $30 compared to $400 for a new carb. Every auto parts store sells gasket material in sheets so it's easy to cut your own.

What's wrong with your carb that you need a brand new replacement? Usually a thorough cleaning will do it and a bowl gasket if needed. The fixed jet carbs are a bit tougher to just clean so a $30 replacement saves time. I don't even bother with cleaning Tecumseh carbs any more since those are only $20 new.

[Ironhorse1077 21]

I'm not exactly sure what is going on with it - just figured a rebuild was in order.  The gaskets between the engine and carb and between the carb and air cleaner definitely need replaced.  Maybe all I need do is replace those gaskets and clean the carb.  I started thinking if a new one could be had for a little more $ than a rebuild kit and a couple gaskets cost - then, why not?

[rmaynard 15,915]

I have used the Chinese clones for Kohler. Be sure to research them and find the ones with S.A.E. threads and fitting rather than metric. It will be an easy replacement, and the great thing is, they seem to work just fine.

[Daddy Don 907]

I used the Chinese clones on my tractors and work fine,

[Ed Kennell 40,470]

I have replaced Carter and Walbro carbs with the 20-40$ Asian carbs and they work fine.

Like Bob said, try to get the SEA threads.  Also look at the pictures of the choke lever...they are reversed on some carbs.

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

30 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I have replaced Carter and Walbro carbs with the 20-40$ Asian carbs and they work fine.

Like Bob said, try to get the SEA threads.  Also look at the pictures of the choke lever...they are reversed on some carbs.

 

 

Can you recommend a seller? I have looked for a half an hour and have yet to find a seller that says anything about sae or metric. 

 

 

 

Thanks, Randy

[tunahead72 2,518]

5 hours ago, wallfish said:

... The Chinese just rip off everybody's stuff with absolutely no regard to any patent rights and reproduce them...

 

Not to start an argument (especially with somebody like wallfish whose opinion I respect), or to hijack anybody's thread, but this to me is a very good reason NOT to buy Chinese parts unless it's absolutely necessary.  The Wheel Horses and Kohlers of this world put a lot of time and money into designing and building their products, and I try to support their efforts whenever I can.  Don't get me wrong, $400 is a ridiculous amount of money to have to pay for a new genuine Kohler carb (you can find them cheaper, but not by much), and $20 to $40 for a Chinese knockoff is very appealing, but my own personal preference is always to rebuild whatever I can.

 

Ironhorse1077, I would suggest trying to clean and rebuild your old carb.  If you've never done one before, there's several links on RedSquare that will guide you through the process.  It's not hard, I can even do it.  And if you can't make it work, by all means go for a new one.  Either way, have some fun with it and good luck!  You know RedSquare is here if you run into problems.

[rmaynard 15,915]

 

4 hours ago, RandyLittrell said:

Can you recommend a seller? I have looked for a half an hour and have yet to find a seller that says anything about sae or metric. 

Thanks, Randy

 

Go to eBay and search for Kohler carburetors sold by seller "cfamily10"

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by rmaynard

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

5 hours ago, rmaynard said:

 

 

Go to eBay and search for Kohler carburetors sold by seller "cfamily10"

 

 

 

Quote

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

Randy

Quote

 

 

 

 

[Reel Mower Freak 125]

I'll also vote for the rebuild rather than offshore stuff. Buy a mixed pack of gasket material and your all set. Pretty easy to trace out the gasket and cut it. I did a K241 in the spring.The carb kit doesn't come with all the gaskets thus the multi pack of material.

[oliver2-44 10,367]

If your carbs throttle shaft still has a reasonable tight fit in the housing consider cleaning & rebuilding it.  If the throttle shaft and hole are worn where the shaft has any thing more than a slight amount of side play replace the carb!.  Some on here have drilled and bushed the shaft and I've done it too, I like staying original and buy US made but it's not worth the extra effort to rebuild one and get marginal performance because the shaft hole is leaking too much air.....ask me how I know.  .  I'm also about to order a chinese carb for a k301. 

[wallfish 17,492]

5 hours ago, tunahead72 said:

Not to start an argument (especially with somebody like wallfish whose opinion I respect), or to hijack anybody's thread, but this to me is a very good reason NOT to buy Chinese parts unless it's absolutely necessary. 

No argument here. That's actually why I wrote that, so people are aware and can make their own decision when it comes to buying them.

And thank you for the kind words!

[Wheel-N-It 2,971]

I've gone both routes, but prefer to have a rebuilt American carburetor verses a new Chinese made carburetor. In the end I have as much or more in the rebuild but to me it's a matter of principle.

[richmondred01 2,289]

I've got three that have been rebuilt and are ready to ship. 

75.00 plus shipping. 

Pm me if you are interested 

[Ironhorse1077 21]

Thanks everyone!  I have made new gaskets and cleaned with spray carb cleaner.  It still is starting up and then idling a while then stalling out.  I really believe there's still some debris in the system - like me in the morning (coughing). So, I have not actually "rebuilt" the carb - but that seems to be the next logical step in my limited knowledge of machinery.

 

I too feel better about having an original American made product rebuilt rather than replacing with a cheap (illegal) replica.  Principles.

 

And along that line of thinking - as a proud American I'd like to go through the process of rebuilding it myself (with a friend looking over my shoulder) - then I have the knowledge to do help myself and possibly others in the future.  So, I'll likely pick up a rebuild kit and give it a go.

 

And please excuse me for popping in and out of this thread.  I wish I could just work/play with tractors all day, but juggling priorities only allows intermittent tractor time.  That, combined with the fact of usually needing a friend on site with more Wheelhorse know-how really limits my wrench time and causes these seemingly simple fixes to drag on for days or usually weeks.

Huge thanks to all who have chimed in here!  All your advice is greatly appreciated! 

[wallfish 17,492]

Did you remove the high and low adjustment needles and spray out those holes and clean the needles as well?

Did you try adjusting those too?

A rebuild kit is just the float needle and some gaskets, so if it's not leaking out the front of the carb, the float needle is good. If the bowl isn't leaking the bowl gasket is good.

Just changing those pieces probably won't solve your problem and check post 12 about the throttle shaft play.

 

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

On 11/16/2016 at 6:20 PM, oliver2-44 said:

If your carbs throttle shaft still has a reasonable tight fit in the housing consider cleaning & rebuilding it.  If the throttle shaft and hole are worn where the shaft has any thing more than a slight amount of side play replace the carb!.  Some on here have drilled and bushed the shaft and I've done it too, I like staying original and buy US made but it's not worth the extra effort to rebuild one and get marginal performance because the shaft hole is leaking too much air.....ask me how I know.  .  I'm also about to order a chinese carb for a k301. 

 

 

You don't have to drill anything out, the carb comes with a spot to add a bushing from the factory. Its on the top of the carb, just pull the shaft and add the bushing. I believe the size is 1/4 X 7/16 X 1/16, You could also take the shaft out then take the shaft and carb to your local hardware store and look though the bushing till you find the right one. 

 

 

 

 

 

Randy

[oliver2-44 10,367]

@RandyLittrell  is correct about the spot on top the carb to add a bushing. Kohler made on but it seems to be NLS.  if you have an Ace hardware, or store that has all the little hardware drawers. a Hillman bushing 58087 will fit. 

[RandyLittrell 3,894]

Just now, oliver2-44 said:

@RandyLittrell  is correct about the spot on top the carb to add a bushing. Kohler made on but it seems to be NLS.  if you have an Ace hardware, or store that has all the little hardware drawers. a Hillman bushing 58087 will fit. 

 

 

And I reuse the throttle shaft screws, just put them back together with blue loctite. 

 

 

 

Randy

[Searcher60 209]

The bushing is still available, as I just purchased a genuine Kohler bushing last week. They had a ton of them in stock. I doubt that you will be able to get the screws out of the butterfly without ruining them. Good luck finding them, threads are 3-48. I feel I could have got them easily if I had a part number. I drilled and taped the holes for 4-40 screws which are easy to get at the hardware store.

-

It with cost 3 times what a new carb shipped from China would cost to properly rebuild one of these. At least it did me. Let me know if you need the bushing kit part #. 

[Anglo Traction 761]

I'm an advocate for refurbishing the old (adjustable) Kohler Carbs.

Being an amateur Shedman, I am able to make all my own parts including all Shaft Bushings, Shafts, Butterfly Plates and Screws. All back to new condition.

Aftermarket Carbs are available here fairly cheap, but they are not serviceable and have to be junked when they fail.

So I'm stuck in the mindset of the age where things were repairable I suppose.

Considered Electric Pumps, but prefer to try and keep original Spec.

If it keeps your machine running to do a job, then it's down to personal choice and option(s) to choose from.

[Searcher60 209]

Are you saying that you have the equipment to manufacture these small parts in your garage?

[Anglo Traction 761]

Hello, sorry for the delay in reply (Dental Appt).

5 hours ago, Searcher60 said:

Are you saying that you have the equipment to manufacture these small parts in your garage?

 

Yes, I am able to produce many parts for my WHs and other machines as well.  Good parts aren't easy to obtain here, so I set to it and make them if possible.

I found my old Thread here on a #26 Carb  ---LINK---

 

No qualifications, taught myself and just enjoy it as a Hobby really. Some Trunnions and a modified PTO Shaft for example. It saves me a wedge of money!. 

 

Regards, Richard.

[Stormin 9,983]

A handy man is our Richard. Done some very nice work. Pity he's 'tother end of the country to me.