Locked in Gear ???

[AMC RULES 37,134]

So, I've got a tractor here that will occasionally get locked in gear...

makes it a PITA to move until the shifter is removed, and the forks reset to neutral. 

I'm thinking this may be the result of the excessive wear on the ball end of the shifter...

wondering if anyone can confirm this thought?

Might tig welding a bead around the worn area on the ball, then reshaping, alleviate the problem?   

[wallfish 17,084]

normally the hole for the dogpoint screw is in the front to back position but this one was obviously welded.

Is there a hole in the front made the size of a 1/8 roll pin? Like 1/16"  Can't see one in the second pic but it's a tight angle.

Re-shaping the end ball couldn't hurt. You could do that with a stick or MIG welder too.

 

[AMC RULES 37,134]

So, I'm at a loss here...  

anything else you could think of John...

would make it keep hanging up in gear? 

[wallfish 17,084]

My 654 used to do that frequently but tightening up the shifter seems to have solved the problem. Changed the worn dogpoint too.

Curious how that ball is shinny all the way around, Usually just wears on the sides where they make contact with the forks. Usually will see that on a spinning shifter but the ring is welded.

Edited November 6, 2016 by wallfish

[JimD 3,345]

Try a shifter out of one of your other tractors for awhile. If the problem stops then at least you have an answer.

[prondzy 3,882]

Im wondering if the spring and pin/ detent balls for the shift forks are rusty/sludged up? or worn detents in the forks themselves? this would cause a hangup issue l.

[AMC RULES 37,134]

 Jim, the only problem with that is...

there isn't another stock type shifter thats gonna work in place of this one. 

 

Edited November 6, 2016 by AMC RULES

[Racinbob 11,245]

You should feel the detent balls slip into place in all gears. If you're not there will be issues. It looks like you have a 1960 Suburban. What's been modified on it? That shifter isn't for a Suburban. The length, the dogpoint hole on the side......

Worse case you could open it up and install a later set of shift rails with the deeper neutral detent and a 3/4" stop pin.

Like John said, the wear on the ball is odd but it looks fine to me as far as using it.. Building it up and reshaping won't help the issue. It just moves the forks.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Racinbob

[AMC RULES 37,134]

I guess...thats what I'm asking...

does the ball move them forks?   

Is that what's causing the wear there? 

[wallfish 17,084]

2 minutes ago, AMC RULES said:

I guess...thats what I'm asking...

does the ball move them forks?

Yes

Can you post a pic of the front of that ring where the dogpoint screw holds the shifter

[Racinbob 11,245]

Yes, the ball rides in the slot on the forks and moves them. The only time wear would be an issue is if it's so bad that that it couldn't push the fork far enough to reach the detents. Then the detents hold the fork in place which holds the transmission in gear.

John, I'm thinking the tractor has been modified and that donut was intentionally turned and the big offset ran the shifter to the side.

It would probably hit the motor if it was installed with that facing straight forward.

[AMC RULES 37,134]

5 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Yes

Can you post a pic of the front of that ring where the dogpoint screw holds the shifter

  John...think I'm seeing the problem now.   

 

[wallfish 17,084]

Does this modified shifter sit backwards? The other side of that dimple is where the set screw goes.

If that dimple is what your set screw is going into, there's your problem.

Edited November 6, 2016 by wallfish

[Racinbob 11,245]

Um Craig, that the back side. Where do you think you see the problem?

[wallfish 17,084]

Shifter ball is riding high in the forks.

 

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Ummm...no Bob, it's actually the front side of the modified shifter you see here. 

Yep, got it...will do John.  

Edited November 6, 2016 by AMC RULES

[Racinbob 11,245]

Now I see Craig. For that setup your hole is correct, Measure it, From the bottom of the donut (not the welds) to the end of the ball should be about 2 5/16".

I was thinking it was on the tractor in the picture in post 1.

Why would you want to drill another hole?

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Yep, donut is in the correct position, up 2-5/16" from the bottom...

it's just the set screw location is currently rotated 90 degrees from the front position. 

John's right...just redrill another hole there.    

Thanks to both youse guys.  

[Racinbob 11,245]

I guess I'm confused again. You want to rotate the shifter 90 degrees? It won't go back on the same tractor then (using that new hole). It would actually angle it back into the seat. It also has nothing to do with your issue.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,104]

You shifter looks OK to me.

I think you are shifting too fast.

When you take it out of a gear hold the shifter in the neutral position in that rail for a count of 5. (Don't let go of that shift rail)

Then go through the neutral gate to pick up the other shift rail and complete your shift.

 

Next time the transmission is out grind some flats of the shift rails so air and oil can enter and exit the blind holes that support the rails in the transmission case.

 

Garry

[Jerry77 1,218]

2 hours ago, AMC RULES said:

would make it keep hanging up in gear

Well, I am coming out of left field here, but I had a 312-8 that had the very tip of the dipstick pinched off by the gears at some point.. thereafter, it would lock up while moving ...by pushing and pulling ( making some movement in the gearbox, the small piece that had broken off and gotten into the gears would fall out ( I guess ) and the tractor was fine for awhile) Probably has nothing to do with your problem but thought I would mention it. you guys are talking way over my head -.

[Racinbob 11,245]

Do you have a 2 piece case or a 3 piece case? What Garry said is spot on for the 2 piece. It doesn't matter on the 3 piece because the rail holes are open. The 2 piece has closed rail holes and will build up a bit of suction as you pull a rail out. Wheel Horse addressed the issue in steps. They modified the rails by making deeper neutral detents and using a 3/4" stop pin in lieu of a 11/16". They modified them by putting the flats in them. At one time they even issued a service bulletin stating to use 40wt oil in order to minimize the suction and locking up in 2 gears.

1 minute ago, Jerry77 said:

Well, I am coming out of left field here, but I had a 312-8 that had the very tip of the dipstick pinched off by the gears at some point.. thereafter, it would lock up while moving ...by pushing and pulling ( making some movement in the gearbox, the small piece that had broken off and gotten into the gears would fall out ( I guess ) and the tractor was fine for awhile) Probably has nothing to do with your problem but thought I would mention it. you guys are talking way over my head -.

 

I don't think so Jerry. By that time they has the issue pretty much in control. I would suggest getting that piece out of there though.

[Jerry77 1,218]

10 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

would suggest getting that piece out

Traded that tractor in for a new 314-8...it had other problems besides that and I was making money back then...

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Well...damn it...   

all these crazy azzed bends in this thing have me all mixed up too. 

After going back down and looking at this thing, seems the set screw hole is positioned correctly after all. 

Reinstalled the shifter using a new set screw, and jam nut...being there was never one there before. 

Might've just been the set screw was backing out.  All seems pretty tight for now. 

Will put a load on it tomorrow, and see if it's fixed. 

Just curious...when functioning correctly, should one be able to hear/or feel those detent ball clicking into place in there?  

 

[stevasaurus 22,882]

I'm just going to say this.  The way that is set up, it would be wise to use 2 hands to find the right gear that you want.  One hand down by that rubber boot that is showing above and the other on the knob.  You never did say what trans this is, but you can see it is a 2 piece...your shift rails could be a large part of the problem...as was stated above...not having a flat side on the shift rails.  Your custom shifter looks (well whatever) but anyone that knows transmissions knows that you are fighting the pattern with that one.  My 2 scents...and you did ask.