1972 GT14 Carb cleaning and build

[FatJackDurham 318]

I just got a GT-14, and its clear it needs a bit of maintence and repair. I am thinking the first thing I should do is get the engine running smoothly. It bogs down and stalls if I open the throttle too far. So, I want to drain the tank, change the air filter, change the fuel filter and clean the carb this weekend.

 

However, I am concerned about the availability of replacement parts and gaskets.

 

I read the K321 manual about servicing the carbs and the only items it mentioned replacing were float nut gasket, the bowl ring gasket, the needles and seats, and the bowl baffle gasket.

 

I was curious why there were no o-rings mentioned for the adjustment needles. Are there none? And where do you guys get replacement gaskets? I remember someone said that the float nut gasket can be gotten from a hardware store, but what about the bowl ring and baffle gaskets?

 

My intention was to disassemble and soak the whole carb in aqua seal, but I don't want to dissolve any important rubber parts.

[Achto 28,183]

 The parts you mentioned are all you'll need. You can also get complete aftermarket carbs for around $40.

[MWR 321]

14 minutes ago, achto said:

 The parts you mentioned are all you'll need. You can also get complete aftermarket carbs for around $40.

You got my attention.  Do you have a link or any other info on these carbs?

[WHX?? 49,916]

 

First off  FatJack

Carb rebuild kits are available in many places including some auto parts stores and most small engine shops that might have a Kohler shingle hanging outside. Kits will come with everything you need to rebuild the type you are working on. The manual might have the Kohler kit P/N you can Google to find other sources and make sure you get the right one.

My choice is usually just because I don't live close to any of those places but I do live close to my mailbox!

As Dan mentioned above the cheap knock off Chinese carbs can be had for a pittance if desired and the guys here say they work good. If by chance  it's a Walbro most of us here prefer to go the Chinese route.

I would recommend this https://www.berrymanproducts.com/products/eco-friendly-products/berryman-chem-dip-carburetor-and-parts-cleaner/ for soaking the disassembled carb in.

 

6 minutes ago, MWR said:

Do you have a link or any other info on these carbs?

You just get off the boat or one of them logs roll over ya MWR??  Just search fleabay for Kohler carbs and you will have them coming out of the woodwork!!

 

[MWR 321]

1 minute ago, WHX8 said:

 

First off  FatJack

Carb rebuild kits are available in many places including some auto parts stores and most small engine shops that might have a Kohler shingle hanging outside. Kits will come with everything you need to rebuild the type you are working on. The manual might have the Kohler kit P/N you can Google to find other sources and make sure you get the right one.

My choice is usually just because I don't live close to any of those places but I do live close to my mailbox!

As Dan mentioned above the cheap knock off Chinese carbs can be had for a pittance if desired and the guys here say they work good. If by chance  it's a Walbro most of us here prefer to go the Chinese route.

I would recommend this https://www.berrymanproducts.com/products/eco-friendly-products/berryman-chem-dip-carburetor-and-parts-cleaner/ for soaking the disassembled carb in.

 

You just get off the boat or one of them logs roll over ya MWR??  Just search fleabay for Kohler carbs and you will have them coming out of the woodwork!!

 

Log rolling can cause brain damage. 

[953 nut 56,739]

Have you tried Seafoam for your fuel system? A shot of Seafoam carburetor cleaner into the air intake several times and adding the liquid to the gas has done a wonderful job for lots of us. Here is some light reading for you.

 Carburator Reference Manual TP-2377-E.pdf

Carburator adjustments.docx

[FatJackDurham 318]

Thanks for all the tips. I agree, log rolling is always more fun to watch than to do.

 

I take it Walbro is a kind of carb? What is the difference and why is a walbro a hassle? Parts availability?

 

I see that link you provided is safe on rubber, so I won't need to pull of O-rings even if they don't exist.

4 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Have you tried Seafoam for your fuel system? A shot of Seafoam carburetor cleaner into the air intake several times and adding the liquid to the gas has done a wonderful job for lots of us. Here is some light reading for you.

 Carburator Reference Manual TP-2377-E.pdf

Carburator adjustments.docx

 

I have not tried anything yet. I saw someone else mentioned Seafoam in another post. Does it dissolve the varnish? I think this rig sat for three years, so I was thinking a soak was the only way to get it happy again. Thanks for the link. Is that the correct carb for my tractor, or did wheelhorse use the same carb on all tractors?

[WHX?? 49,916]

It will take paint off Jack, yes Walbro is a brand of carbs you might see out there, I personally never had serious issues with them ...except for on weed wackers.

 

Thanks for those links Dick... might come in handy in the shop!

10 minutes ago, FatJackDurham said:

log rolling is always more fun to watch than to do.

You'll have to send Fat Jack a link to your videos now MWR!

[953 nut 56,739]

Your 14 HP uses a K321 Kohler engine with a Carter Carb. unless it was changed out for some strange reason. It is the same as the 16 HP carb., but the kits for a basic clean up are the same for virtually all single cylinder Kohlers from 4 to 16 HP. The main reason I suggest starting with the Seafoam is that with a GT-14 it is a PITA to remove the carb.

[WHX?? 49,916]

Agreed Richard...First thing to check is the play in the throttle shaft at the carb body. If there is excessive play there you'll never get it to run right. They say replace the carb if this is a problem but some guys (not me) claim to have put bushings in there.

[FatJackDurham 318]

Carb flange number matches engine manual, A-236967, and it looks like I can get a rebuild kit from NAPA, Amazon or Ebay. If I can't get one before the weekend, then I'll use the Seafoam if I can get that.

[Aldon 4,828]

2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Your 14 HP uses a K321 Kohler engine with a Carter Carb. unless it was changed out for some strange reason. It is the same as the 16 HP carb., but the kits for a basic clean up are the same for virtually all single cylinder Kohlers from 4 to 16 HP. The main reason I suggest starting with the Seafoam is that with a GT-14 it is a PITA to remove the carb.

Easier to take nose off but then a PITA to balance the fuel tank so you can fine tune everything.

 

And that nose section uninstall / Reinstall task may test the limits of your explicatives.

 

[ztnoo 2,299]

IMO, at under $7.00 a can at Walmart, considering all the potential effort and hassle by getting much more physically and financially involved, what do you have to lose running a tank full of fresh fuel with Seafoam or some other reputable carb cleaner through the system???

Not much, I'd say.

[roadapples 6,983]

If you have to go to the trouble of rebuilding the carb., I`d replace the fuel line while you`re at it. Only a few more bucks...                        Oh and    

Edited October 26, 2016 by roadapples

[FatJackDurham 318]

1 hour ago, Aldon said:

Easier to take nose off but then a PITA to balance the fuel tank so you can fine tune everything.

 

And that nose section uninstall / Reinstall task may test the limits of your explicatives.

 

 

SO much information.. What do you mean "take the nose off" and "balance the fuel tank?"

[oldredrider 2,553]

The GT14 can be a tough animal to tame. Getting at the carb to work on is easiest by removing the heat shield, gas tank and possibly the front grill. If you are planning on getting the tractor up and running well, I recommend you do all of the above. You will most likely have to at one point anyway. Getting to carb, valve cover, points and fuel pump is easiest by disassembling the above.

Edited October 27, 2016 by oldredrider

[FatJackDurham 318]

Thanks!

[Aldon 4,828]

So to add to oldredriders comments, unless you unbolt the engine from the frame, you can not remove the fuel tank without at least loosening the two bolt/nuts that hold the cast iron nose/grill onto the frame. In addition, the two support rails need to be unattached from the nose and if the bolts holding the grille/nose on are long enough, doubtful, but if they are, you can lean the grille forward enough to potentially remove the gas tank or tilt both forward enough to access the upper half of the engine facing the fuel tank. Having done it several times, you do get a knack for it but it is still an aggravation.

[FatJackDurham 318]

Thanks, Aldon. We'll see, I guess.

 

I bought Muriatic Acid. I may go ahead and clean/seal the tank. I could't find Seafoam at my local Walmart. I bought a rebuild kit on Amazon, should be here tomorrow. I'll check for a tank sealing kit at NAPA on Saturday.

 

I suppose I'll be taking the nose apart then. Should be fun. Shouldn't it?

[ztnoo 2,299]

The gas tank is plastic!

Why would you put muriatic acid in a plastic tank???

There's no rust flaking or corrosion to eliminate.

[FatJackDurham 318]

33 minutes ago, ztnoo said:

The gas tank is plastic!

Why would you put muriatic acid in a plastic tank???

There's no rust flaking or corrosion to eliminate.

 

Son of a!!!!! You are right! I thought it was metal!!!!!!! I read so many posts about having to seal tanks, I assumed my was that old! I never looked closely at it!!!!!!

 

What am I gonna do with all this HCL?!?!?!??? Any one need to disappear a body?

 

Oh, well...... I'll find something rusty to clean up I am sure...... Feelin' kinda dumb.... 

[ztnoo 2,299]

There might be sludge, debris, sand, small rocks, or other "crap" in the bottom of your tank which might be partially blocking or restricting the flow of gas.

If I'm not mistaken, I think Aldon ran into this with his resurrected from the dead Lazarus GT 14.

Might be worth checking out.

[FatJackDurham 318]

Taking the nose off was every bit as exciting as you guys made it sound. And, now I have questions

 

1) First of all, have any of you considered tapping the bolt holes on the bottom of the nose casting and bolting to the frame from underneath, instead of using the tank bracket bolts? Seems obvious to me, but before I do it, I thought I'd ask. I can always secure the tank bracket another way.

 

2) My carb is labelled A-236967, and the carburetor reference manual lists numbers 47-053-03,09,15,16,20,30,35,31,63, and 78, with engine serial number breaks. I can't find anything on the engine that gives the serial number. The manual the original owner had has a serial number written as EO-143333, which doesn't match the format in the carburetor manual. Any hints on which is the correct part number?

 

3) I think some springs may be missing. The carb throttle doesn't snap closed like any carb I am familiar with, and the governor seems pretty tight. How lose should this be? The manual talks about twisting the throttle knob to lock it, which to me indicates that unlocked, it should return to low rpm naturally, but I don't see any sort of return spring that would cause this.

 

4) The Throttle knob and cable are pretty hosed up and very tight to move. Is it possible to get a replacement somewhere or a different throttle lever or knob? Has anyone done this yet?

 

5) Choke detent ball -  What size? Does anyone know? Mine came flying out, bounced off my melon and landed against the back wall some where because.....

 

6) Is the choke plate supposed to be bent near the reed valve on it? Mine seems to be and I wasn't sure if this was normal. I decided to try to take the valve plate out, sheared off the brass nuts (I have a plan) and when I pulled the throttle shaft out, the detent ball came flying out (I have a plan, but I'd like to know if anyone knows what size ball it is)

 

Although I can drill and tap the choke shaft, replace the ball and screws, and even try to unbend the choke plate, I am thinking a new carb would be easier, though not as much fun. If I want to look up replacement carbs on Ebay, what part number should I look for?

 

Thanks for any comments and advice.

I think I found the right carb on Ebay, but can I get an amen for it? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-Carburetor-For-Kohler-K321-K341-Cast-Iron-14hp-16hp-Engine-Carb-/311685069259?hash=item4891e0b9cb:g:xR0AAOSwZVlXwVnd

[FatJackDurham 318]

I see I can get throttle cables on Ebay, too. So, really, at this point, I am most concerned with the linkage. I am looking at my Kohler engine pamphlet and it doesn't resemble how mine was connected. For example, should the throttle cable be connected to the carburetor or directly to the governor? Mine was connected to the speed control linkage and the governor.

 

Update -Okay, after scouring the forum and web, I saw some pictures of the governor setup. So, I guess my throttle cable really is supposed to connect to the lever attached to the blower shroud. But, does it go on the top or bottom? Stigian's pictures when he swapped out the 16HP engine looks like he would attach at the top, but my is at the bottom. Anyone have a photo of the linkage with the tank off?

 

Edited October 29, 2016 by FatJackDurham

[953 nut 56,739]

1 hour ago, FatJackDurham said:

can I get an amen for it?

Just be very sure the choke arm where the cable hooks up is the same as yours.