TONY65 15 #1 Posted October 17, 2016 I have a 654 that I recently acquired and I just started messing with it yesterday. I noticed that I can turn the input pulley on the transmission with it in any gear and the tractor will not move. It just free wheels like it is in neutral all the time. What is the most common reason it would do that? It has the 5046 trans. I am thinking that the input shaft gear may have sheared off some teeth or a woodruff key has sheared. Anyone have this experience before. I was planning on rebuilding the trans anyway, but just wanted someone's opinion on what I need to look for when I take it apart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 11,260 #2 Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) It's almost certainly the key is sheared. See if the shaft is turning. I'm betting not. Remove the pulley and replace the key. My list shows a 5049 on the 654 but that could be wrong. Supposedly the 5049 came out in 1965 with updated shift rails so that would make the 5046 correct. In either case it doesn't matter with your issue. Edited October 17, 2016 by Racinbob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,884 #3 Posted October 18, 2016 Guys, I have 2 lists that I use and one shows the 5046 and the other shows the 5049. If there is a difference between the 2...it ain't much...they are both 3 speed uni-drives with 4 pinion differentials and 1" axles. @Racinbob....1 was made in South Bend and the other was made in the Big House. Tony, it almost has to be the key is broke or it is missing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 11,260 #4 Posted October 18, 2016 The only difference I see is the 5049 was the first transmission to use the 56xx shift rails with the deeper neutral detents and the longer stop pin rather than the 35xx rails. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,884 #5 Posted October 18, 2016 Right Bob...maybe Tony can take some pictures when he opens his transmission up. It could be something that got changed during the course of the year also. What is the serial number of this horse? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,107 #6 Posted October 18, 2016 Here is what I have Model 5046 replaced by 5049 for 1965 and 5053 for 1966-1969 They always issued a service bulletin when the transmission models changed. I just put them all together to get this. Garry 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 11,260 #7 Posted October 18, 2016 That's what I found Garry. Service bulletin #60 addressed the shift rails and was issued in January 1965. The 5049 was the first to have the newer rails. That's what leads me to believe his is a 5046. It would be interesting to see what rails he has. We kinda shifted directions (bad pun) here. @TONY65 did you get a chance to check the key yet? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TONY65 15 #8 Posted October 18, 2016 I will look tonight when I get home from work, but I think its something internal. I think the input shaft is also tuning, but I will verify that when I get home. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TONY65 15 #9 Posted October 18, 2016 2 hours ago, stevasaurus said: Right Bob...maybe Tony can take some pictures when he opens his transmission up. It could be something that got changed during the course of the year also. What is the serial number of this horse? Serial number 18929 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TONY65 15 #10 Posted October 18, 2016 OK, I did a little more investigation and the input shaft and pulley do turn together, but the brake/clutch shaft and pulley are froze up and will not turn at all with the transmission in or out of gear. So I guess that I will have to tear it down this winter and do a complete overhaul. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,884 #11 Posted October 19, 2016 Tony, it is almost impossible (and I say almost) to have the symptoms you have at the same time. With the idea that you may not have to open up yet, let's try a few things and answer a few questions. 1. can you push the horse around with the trans in neutral? 2. can you push the horse around with the trans in gear? Now put the rear end of the horse on blocks, take off the belt guard and drive belt. 3. when you shift gears, does the shifter feel like you are moving the shift forks into the gears? 4. with the trans in neutral, turn one of the tires in any direction. does the other tire turn in the opposite direction? Do the same with the other tire. Should be smooth and quiet. 5. with the trans in neutral, turn both tires in the same direction. Is the brake shaft turning now? It should turn now. Let us know what you find. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TONY65 15 #12 Posted October 19, 2016 Here it is a picture of it the day I brought it home. The previous owner had started to restore it, but he need to make room in his garage so I traded a set of 65 Mustang rims for it. My goal it to complete the restoration by this time next year. I know the engine runs. This was the same model my Grandpa (My Dad's Dad) had. stevasaurus, I will try to answer your questions tonight if I have time to look at it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 11,260 #13 Posted October 19, 2016 Check both rear wheel hub keys as well. Only one has to be sheared to prevent the tractor from moving. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TONY65 15 #14 Posted October 19, 2016 4 hours ago, stevasaurus said: Tony, it is almost impossible (and I say almost) to have the symptoms you have at the same time. With the idea that you may not have to open up yet, let's try a few things and answer a few questions. 1. can you push the horse around with the trans in neutral? 2. can you push the horse around with the trans in gear? Now put the rear end of the horse on blocks, take off the belt guard and drive belt. 3. when you shift gears, does the shifter feel like you are moving the shift forks into the gears? 4. with the trans in neutral, turn one of the tires in any direction. does the other tire turn in the opposite direction? Do the same with the other tire. Should be smooth and quiet. 5. with the trans in neutral, turn both tires in the same direction. Is the brake shaft turning now? It should turn now. Let us know what you find. 1 YES 2 YES 3 YES 4 SORT OF. IF I SPIN RIGHT SIDE TIRE SLOWLY LEFT TIRE DOSE NOT MOVE, HOWEVER IF I SPIN RIGHT SIDE FAST IT TURNS LEFT SIDE IN OPPOSITE DIRECTION SLOWLY. IF I SPIN LEFT TIRE ANY SPEED RIGHT TIRE TURNS OPPOSITE DIRECTION AT THE SAME SPEED. 5 YES, I GUESS TRYING TO TURN THE BRAKE/CLUTCH PULLEY BY HAND IS HARDER THAN I THOUGHT. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,884 #15 Posted October 19, 2016 Now we are getting somewhere!! OK...do what Bob said. So far you may have a sheared or lost wood ruff key in one of the hubs of the rear tires. Check that 1st. Best to pull off both tires and then both hubs...it could be either one...guessing it's the right side. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TONY65 15 #16 Posted October 22, 2016 Found the problem, right side woodruff key sheard off. Still have to put new seals on axle shafts though, they have been leaking. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,884 #17 Posted October 22, 2016 Excellent Tony. You can change those axle seals also without opening up the trans. SKF #9815 for the seals. I like to use a tool like the one in the bottom of this picture. It is used for pulling carter pins. Just dig it in through the rubber next to the axle and pry it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TONY65 15 #18 Posted October 23, 2016 Ok thanks I'll try that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
