K181S PTO Clutch Assembly (75' Wheelhorse B80)

[Sokniw 13]

Alright, i have been rebuilding this K181 for a little over 6 months now and i finally got it running. But now i am trying to re assemble the PTO clutch to drive the mower deck, and i am trying to find resources on it to make sure im putting it together. What happened when i took it apart is i didn't realize that there was a spring and other goodies inside of it and it all fell out without being able to see how it went together and worked. 

 

Right now it is completely off, i have the Clutch plate on and thats it. 

 

And yes i am new to all this i took this project on as a learning tool. 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Sokniw

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

Page 20 of this parts manual shows the parts

If you want you can replace the 14-75 clutch shaft with a new style that has grooves for a retaining ring on both sides of the outer bearing and leave all those inner parts out.

 

The later shaft with 2 grooves is 102872 and here is a picture.

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/parts/102872/

 

Here is how the complete pto parts are used

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/31-12k801-312-8-toro-312-8-garden-tractor-1990/pto-clutch-and-control/

 

Garry

 

[clueless 3,011]

On 9/12/2016 at 7:29 AM, gwest_ca said:

If you want you can replace the 14-75 clutch shaft with a new style that has grooves for a retaining ring on both sides of the outer bearing and leave all those inner parts out.

 

Garry, I've never taken one of these apart, looks like I'am going to. Just pick up a c-81 po says it needs a new stub shaft the clutch wiggles. If I buy the new style, what inner parts can I leave out? Chris.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

You leave all those inner parts out. You end up with what the 1990 model 312-8 above looks like.

 

Garry

[jdleach 525]

The "new" style PTO clutch goes back to at least 1980, as it is installed on my 1980 C-175 black hood. Things are stupid simple, and work well even when severely worn.

 

Glad you posted the Partstree link Garry. Was not sure as to what type thrust bearing was used for the outer bearing. Can see it is of the sealed variety, and no doubt of the angular contact type.

Edited September 15, 2016 by jdleach

[squonk 41,290]

In case anybody needs to know that outer bearing is a common P204RR6 found at any Napa store.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

The retaining rings used in this application are the most common available. If you look close at them you will see the edges on one side are rounded and the other side they are square and sharp. You want to install them with the sharp edge taking the brunt of the load.

On the short shaft the rings on each side of the bearing have the sharp edges facing the ends of the shaft. That way the sharp edge matches the groove and the high pressure created by the applied clutch won't force the ring out of the groove.

If the rounded side is out the ring to groove contact area is reduced and the pressure could squeeze to ring out of the groove.

Hard thing to explain with a why it is done that way.

 

Garry

[clueless 3,011]

Ok, pulled the pto clutch it was very wobbly po said stub shaft was split, have not taken it apart yet.Was going to remove friction pad from drive pulley, no key! the PN for the key is 105453, does anybody know what size the key is, kohler k181 1 inch shaft. may be the reason for the wobble.      

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

Key number 6507 replaced by 105453

1/4" x 1/4" x 1/2"

 

Here is a picture of it

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/parts/105453/

 

Garry

[Sokniw 13]

I guess how these clutches work confuses me. What causes the clutch when engages? just the pressure of the assembly pushing against the clutch plate? I have my back together, tried to use the parts guide to assembly it the best i can and i cant seem to get it to engage at all.  So if i get the PTO shaft, i can take the spring and all that junk out.. 

 

On the older style cluch does the PTO shaft sit on the outside of the assembly or does it go into it? ill attach a photo on how i have it now. 

 

and yes for the mower deck i have the belt on the wrong pully. 

Edited September 18, 2016 by Sokniw

[Sokniw 13]

bump

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

That looks correct if the retaining ring is on the shaft pushing on the bearing. I don't see it.

You should use a pin to connect the hoop to the shaft that is closer to the size of the hole in the bracket and shaft. There is not much movement between clutch applied and clutch off so you may be losing everything to the loose pin in it now.

Yes the pulley is just pressed against the friction material. The pto handle will lock over center when applied when the force is correct. It is a trial and error adjustment. You don't want the pto to slip when under load. They often emit a high pitched squeal when it slips.

 

Garry

[Sokniw 13]

Ahh i see i think im missing something inside. I think im going to order the new shaft and replace it. 

When i took it all apart i didnt know there was stuff on the inside of that just fell out so i have been trying to figure it out since. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by Sokniw

[Sokniw 13]

Alright i'm back at it got the new Clutch shaft installed it and still not enough pressure to spin the mower deck, I assume it shouldn't take that much pressure. When i engage the clutch the engine really bogs down and the clutch plate doesn't spin the clutch, i also adjusted it as much as i could so the handle was putting the max amount of pressure on it. 

This is pretty frustrating as i need this to work or its pretty useless lawn mower, i need it for snowblowing this winter cause i am acquiring some land and my house will be finished being built end of december. 

My question is:

How freely should the mower deck blades spin? they seemed pretty seized up and maybe that is my problem. I am taking it apart and cleaning it up and going to re oil it all to see if i can get it spinning better. Once i cleaned it up it moved easier by hand. 

[pfrederi 17,855]

With PTO disengaged you should be able to turn the PTO pulley over by hand spinning the deck.

 

If the deck is seized up that you will need to see which spindle(s) are bad Take the deck belt off and try spinning them by hand they should spin very easily and quietly

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by pfrederi

[Sokniw 13]

Awesome thanks, We took it off last night and cleaned it really good, been sitting for 2-3 years unused so all the crap was stuck to it. it spins pretty easily but i think i can get it to spin a little better. 

 

Like i said i engage the clutch and you can hear the engine bog down sometimes evens kills it so i knew something had to be going on.