RJ-58 Restoration

[WHX?? 48,815]

They are real cheap (10 bucks) on Troy that's where I got mine to do what you are doing. It took a long time and they were fairly tight. The stones like to fill up with bronze material so stop and clean them often If you go that route.  In fact mine was so tight I was worried I could not push the roller across the shop floor as I can easily do with my other 'Burbs and RJ's . Steve says just a little tight & the axles need to wear in to the new bushes. He was right..... a little seat time and all was well. I have a post on how to put the cluster gears in backwards so be sure you don't do that. Shouldn't need any sealer on the case bolts but I suppose a little BLUE Loctite wouldn't hurt. If your like us figure on taking the tranny back apart at least once to fix your screw ups.... some of us more than once right Bob??  I tapped in a magnetic drain plug just cause I could.

 

By the way I think @Racinbobhas a patent on the axle flip

 

by the way here's my restore thread ... might help you out might not... tranny work starts on 47

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by WHX7
spell

[stevasaurus 22,738]

Troy, I am glad that you just filed off the burrs on the axles.  I think with the grooves, you really are looking at just normal wear...60 years worth.    Seriously, I am not sure how the oil gets to that outer bearing enough to keep it oiled.  If the seal leaks though, it is getting oil.  I really recommend the hone...it makes the bronze smooth again.  I don't really remember what I paid for mine...guess about $8.    Use a little 3 in 1 oil for the honing...it will help keep the bronze filings from messing with the hone.  If you can turn the axles by hand when you get it back together you will be OK.  I use the hone as is.  The hone is only going to smooth out the sides of the bearing, unless you put a piece of Emory cloth inside and use the hone to turn it. (not a bad idea).  You need to sand or grind the bearing to fit and then smooth it.  I like to lube every thing with Lucas (sp) Oil Treatment when I put those transmissions together...it is like STP and coats well.   That hone is much cheaper then 3 cases of rattle can paint. 

 

Jim, I end up taking them back apart...at least once usually.  You can take it apart and put it back together in about 15 minutes after the 1st time. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by stevasaurus

[WHX?? 48,815]

Oh and just love the way you hang your clothes up to dry!!

[Johndeereelfman 309]

I did a search and found that Auto Zone has two types of these hones, one for $14.95 (with bad reviews) and one for $18.95 (two good and one bad review), so I guess it's off to Auto Zone. Is there a certain grit that I should be looking to buy, or are they all the same? 

 

I watched a couple of youtube videos on how to hone a cylinder, and although they all were pretty much the same with their techniques, they all used different oils. One guy says cutting oil won't work as good as penetrating oil will, the second guy says to use standard motor oil, while the third guy says to use rapid tap. Steve, you're suggesting 3-in-1 oil. I have all four of these oil, so is one type better than another?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, WHX7 said:

Oh and just love the way you hang your clothes up to dry!!

 

Using the clothes pins helps to keep the parts from twisting or spinning on the line while during breezy days.

Pretty bad when I have to schedule with my wife on which days she's planning on doing laundry, and when I can use the line. The two things that really sets her off though is when I hand her a couple of broken clothes pins whenever I put things away for the night, and the freshly painted green, yellow, red, black, gray or silver wash line! 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[WHX?? 48,815]

9 minutes ago, Johndeereelfman said:

certain grit that I should be looking to buy, or are they all the same?

Most are 220 grit but some you can change the stones for different grits...I imagine those are the pro one's that fall off the Snap On truck and are $$. I used 220 with no problems. I never used any oil.... my bad... 

Maybe @Jake Kuhn can chime in how he has done it ....he probably has done more than all of us heads put together...

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Ok, Thanks Jim. I'll use what comes with the hone and see what happens. Didn't make it to Auto Zone tonight, but I'll stop there on my way home from work tomorrow. 

 

I can contact Jake directly, as I'm already working with him on some other parts and pieces. 

[Racinbob 11,077]

Troy, I like Loctite PST 592 on the threads. It's excellent for contact with petroleum products. There's many other good products though.

 

As far as honing the bushings I didn't use any lube on it. Being bronze it really doesn't need it but if you want to go ahead and lube it. It's not like honing a brake cylinder. The emery I wrapped it in was 180 grit open mesh. The open mesh allowed the stones to hang on better than cloth backed. I finished up using just the cylinder hone but probably didn't have to.

[stevasaurus 22,738]

I have used the 3 and 1 oil and have not used any also.  Actually, you will have to experiment and see what works best for you.  I find a variable speed drill running slow works better then on the fast speed.  I like RacinBob's idea of the mesh.    You are looking to smooth it out after sanding/grinding...it does not have to be perfect...but looking at the quality you do Troy...I'm sure what you do will be fantastic. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by stevasaurus

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Thanks guys. I didn't get to stop at Auto Zone like I'd hoped, however I did stop and pick up the clear coat. Hopefully the $64.63 spent for the two cases will be a worth while investment! 

[Skeeters65 45]

When do you think you will start spraying clear?

[Johndeereelfman 309]

3 minutes ago, Skeeters65 said:

When do you think you will start spraying clear?

 

I'm planning on trying a couple of test pieces this weekend Skeeter. I'll keep you all posted on my results.

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Well, today I got two coats of the clear acrylic lacquer applied to the Kohler recoil that I was planning on using before I bought the Fairbanks Morse one. The recoil had at least three coats of finish applied, and was last wet sanded with 1500 grit before the last coat. Now granted the recoil finish didn't have the shine on it like my other parts do, but after two coats of the clear, I think it would turnout pretty nice. Keep in mind, I'm not spraying this extra part to see how well it will shine, but rather to see how well the lacquer will adhere to the enamel. 

 

Here are before and after pictures. So far, no crackling, bubbling, or separation. 

 

Before:

 

 

After:

 

 

Can almost read the Tallmans spray can. I think it will work well, and I think I'm going to pull the trigger and spray the rest of my parts tomorrow. That is unless I find different results tomorrow morning after the recoil has had time to dry over night. I'll keep you all posted tomorrow afternoon. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[ACman 7,618]

 Tallmans paint , looks to be some good stuff  . Can't wait to see a buff and shine!

[Johndeereelfman 309]

12 hours ago, ACman said:

 Tallmans paint , looks to be some good stuff  . 

 

 

Yes it is. I just can't say enough about this paint. I've tried so many different brands of paint, and after using this Tallmans brand, I won't go back to anything else. I'm probably sounding like a broken record, but this paint is easy to work with, sands nice, goes on smooth, dries fast, and gives off a terrific finish. Couldn't be anymore happier! I highly recommend Tallmans to anybody looking to do a restoration. 

 

Just so you all know, this brand of paint is available in gallons and quarts as well for any of you that only use spray guns. Hardner is also available, however the hardner is only available for spray gun use. If you haven't checked out their website, it might be worth your while to give a look. They carry all shades or colors of the major tractor manufacturers, and will custom match any color that you need if they don't already carry it. Agriculture paint is all they specialize in, so no house paint or automotive paint, just tractor paint. Fade resistant, rust inhibited so if you happen to miss some rust removal before painting, this paint is engineered to stop the rust and keep it from bleeding though. Dries to a hard finish within time, and did I mention how well it gives off a shine????? 

 

OK, I'm done preaching! 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[Abe01 61]

On the "lubricant" for the hone, on steels I generally use a light oil say 3n1 or any of the light machine oils or even say thinned out 30 weight. On aluminium or non ferrus materials I use a heavier oil like light coating of 30w.  with ferris materials they don't tend to build up in the stone as easily so don't require heavy oils I have personally used simple green or similar type solvents. However for nonferrous metals it's preferable to use an oil thick enough to suspend the swarf so it can evacuate the stone and not clog, but not so heavy that it decreases the friction of the stone across the surface. This is just a general rule of thumb there are outlying materials that this won't apply to.......

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Thanks Abe, good to know stuff and I appreciate your sharing.

[Chris G 3,296]

Well ill admit it you got me interested in trying that paint on a resto after following your resto here. Great job thus far on your tractor though it looks great. Can't wait to see it finished. But could I bug ya to find out some info on were I could locate that brand paint?

[Abe01 61]

1 hour ago, Chris G said:

Well ill admit it you got me interested in trying that paint on a resto after following your resto here. Great job thus far on your tractor though it looks great. Can't wait to see it finished. But could I bug ya to find out some info on were I could locate that brand paint?

.....that paint does look far superior to any rattle can not just surface finis but depth and how "hard" it looks as well. @Chris G I did go lookin  and if you Google tallmans pain't you can find quite a few distributors and the company site.

[Chris G 3,296]

I appreciate it. Cause yes I agree that paint does seem like it has a real good quality and finish.

[953 nut 55,223]

On 9/15/2016 at 7:50 AM, Racinbob said:

emery I wrapped it in was 180 grit open mesh.

Also known as plumber's cloth.

19 hours ago, Johndeereelfman said:

Can almost read the Tallmans spray can. I think it will work

                           That is quite impressive, glad there were no compatibility issues.    

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Boy, what a day. I took every piece out of the garage this morning and hung them on the wash line. One by one, I'd remove a piece, move it down the line further away from the rest of the parts, spray it with the clear, then take it back and rehang it in it's original spot. When I got to the end of the line of parts, the first part was dry and ready for the second coat. So with that said, all of the parts have two coats of clear on them. I'm going to let them sit over night then drag them all out tomorrow and start the process all over again by giving them all the third and possibly a fourth coat. As for the clear acrylic lacquer, I had no problems. The parts that were painted with the Tallmans enamel paint accepted the acrylic lacquer as promised by Troy, and even the black Rustoleum painted parts look good as well. The only thing that I wasn't real happy about was the clear coat sets up pretty quickly, so you have to be fast when applying it. Oh, and you can't put on a heavy coat either. It will run easily.  Here are a couple of pictures after painting a few parts. Not a shiny as they were before spraying them with the clear, but I'm really hoping that will change after the third coat and polishing. I already told Ryan that if the shine doesn't come back after doing all of the clear coating, I will strip each part again, and will start all over. 

 

Here is one of the test pieces that was dry enough to try wet sanding and polishing. I wet sanded it with 2000 grit, then polished it with Polishing Compound only. Didn't use any Rubbing Compound or wax. Not the greatest results, but still not bad for only having three coats of finish on it and being wet sanded with 1000 grit before the last coat. I'm really hoping the other parts turnout to be much better than this. 

 

 

After I had all of the parts put away, I decided to work on the transmission again, and hopefully get it completely assembled. I had to go back a couple of times and watch Steve's video, as I ran into a couple of issues that I eventually got figured out. All but one that is! 

I got the brake gear setting correctly now in it's bearing, so that makes me feel a lot better. However, after setting the left side cover on, I can't seem to get the two internal gears to line up or seat properly in their perspective bearings. How do you all get this to work? Ned some advice here. 

 

 

Although you can't see it very well, there is clearance between the bearing and brake gear teeth. Not much, but I believe you could slide a dollar bill between them. Problem was, I didn't have the bearing seat down all the way. Thanks Steve! 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,738]

Troy, I just went through the left plate not lining up...it was driving me crazy.  Here was my solution.  I took a measuring tape and measured the spline shaft and the cluster gear shaft from a couple of points to the outside of the case.  I did the same thing with the bearings in the left plate.  This told me which shaft was off and which direction it has to go.  I took about 2' of fishing line and laid it over the suspect shaft taking the tag ends toward the case side in the direction that the shaft had to go.  Placed the side cover down to those shafts, pulled a little on the fishing line, the shaft moved and the cover slipped right on. I then let go of one side of the line and pulled the line out with the other.  BOOM-SHA-KA-LAK-A     Let me know if that works for you.  I spent about 3 days trying to figure a way to get this.

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Thanks Steve. Not sure how much work I'll get done today as they are calling for off and on showers and thunderstorms all day today. Heaviest thunderstorms are to arrive later this afternoon. I'll do what I can.

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Got some stuff done today however I have good news and I have terribly news. I'll start with the good news first.  The transmission is back together and working as it should be. I reassembled it with the original bolts that I painted silver, but now after seeing how it looks, I think I'm going to replace them all with new stainless steel bolts and small flat washers. Anyway, I know all of the parts for the transmission aren't wet sanded and polished after the clear coat, but I decided to pre-assemble things anyway, making the bolts only hand tight so I could pull it all apart again once Ryan got to see what this RJ will eventually look like. Here are a couple of pictures just to tease you all a bit:

 

 

 

Now for the bad news, or should I again say, terrible news. After taking the assembled rear end back apart, I figured I'd finish out the day by wet sanding one of the fenders and then polishing it up to see just how well it will look. NOT HAPPY AT ALL!!!! I am so disappointed and p'd off, that I'm ready to start all over again. I had a better shine before I started the clear coat, then the results that I have after. All that hard work for nothing, and I don't really see anyway of fixing it without stripping all of the pieces and starting from scratch again. If anybody out there has any recommendations, trust me, I'm all ears. I shouldn't have clear coated and just waxed my parts!!!!

 

 Before any Clear Coat:

 

 

If you look at the assembled rear above, you can see what the fenders looked like after four coats of clear were applied.

 

 

After wet sanding the clear coat with 2000 grit:

 

 

After a light coat of Rubbing Compound and then a coat of Polishing Compound:

 

 

This fender looks like I just coated it with the first coat of color finish. Very disappointing indeed. no shine whatsoever and what is there is very dull. This was enough to ruin my whole day. Maybe I just need to stick with painting "Green".

[ACman 7,618]

Try contacting Troy at Tallmans , maybe he'll have a suggestion  . You never know what will happen till you ask  . He does know your painting capabilities .