RJ-58 Restoration

[Johndeereelfman 309]

I spent most of the this morning installing siding on a neighbors shed, however I did manage to get some stuff done on the RJ although it doesn't appear to be much. First thing I did was hang all of the painted parts on the wash line for some added cure time in the sun. It was a really nice day today with no humidity, so I wanted to take advantage of it while I still can. Anyway, after seeing all of the parts out, my son Ryan got all excited and thought today was assembly day. He was quickly disappointed, but overwhelmed by the amount parts. He wants to know how such a little tractor can have so many parts!  

 

I still have a ways to go yet, however I'm determined to make my goal of starting the assembly by the end of September. 

 

 

 

With the exception of the starter cup and axle hub, these parts are still needing to be finished yet with a couple more coats:

 

 

I went with your advice Richard, and started applying a first coat of black on the oil bath breather. I think it's going to look pretty sharp after it's wet sanded and coated a few more times.

 

 

I also started cleaning the miscellaneous nuts, bolts, and other gadgets that were soaking in apple cider vinegar for the past couple of weeks. This was my first time trying this method, but I have to say, I'm quite impressed. It was recommended that I use a 50% vinegar to 50% water mixture, however I elected to go 100% vinegar. Most of the bolts are still in the container as I ran out of time, however here is what I did manage to get cleaned tonight. All I had to do was go over each of them with a wire brush. As you can see, all of the rust is gone and each piece cleaned up really well. 

 

 

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Good day today. I got the last coats on the transmission housing and side covers, the second coat on the seat spring, rear cooling tin, and the main blower housing:

 

 

 

I also replaced the differential bushings today. I used a hacksaw blade to slowly cut the original bronze bushing, then once through, I peeled one of the corners up and slid it out. It went really good without and damage. Since the new bushings were a 1/4" too long, I had to use the Dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut them to length:

 

 

 

I also decided to flip the axle shafts as they were pretty worn where the axle tube bushings rode. It took sometime drilling the end holes for the gear pins, but I think it will be worth the time and effort in the long run:

 

 

 

 

Then it was time to reassemble the differential. After it was back together, I lubed it up good with Petroleum Jelly to help keep the rust to a minimum until I have the transmission ready for complete assembly:

 

 

And the last thing I did today, was stripped all of the transmission bolts and plugs, and got them all painted with one coat of aluminum. Now before anyone asked why I just didn't go with new bolts, here's why. I'm going to have a couple parts on this transmission that will be painted silver, and I don't think having new stainless steel bolts next to the painted silver parts will look right. Yes, I could have painted these bolts and plugs red to match the rest of the transmission, however I like detail and I think this will set it off a little bit. If it doesn't turnout right, I can always go back to painting them red:

 

 

 

Oh, and I was able to get two cases of the acrylic lacquer clear coat ordered this morning. Should be ready for pick up on Tuesday. 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[r356c 375]

I've picked up some valuable restoration techniques from this thread.

There are sure to be quite a few happy horses that end up being restored the JD way. 

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,496]

Troy,

It's coming along nicely.  Your attention to detail is commendable.  I wish I was that dedicated (and skilled).

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the compliments! 

 

Today I worked on getting more nuts and bolts wire brushed and cleaned. No pictures of them, as I figured it wasn't that big of a deal. I also wet sanded and applied another finish coat to the oil bath breather, as well as both of the side plates for the transmission. I wasn't going to do the side plates anymore, however after inspecting them a little closer, they just didn't suit me. I also painted the lettering on the blower housing today. Again, no pictures, but this time due to the camera battery dying. 

 

The only thing I have to show today is, getting another coat of finish on the frame. Not quite there yet, but should come around after another wet sand and another finish coat:

 

 

If all goes well this week, and I can make it home from work at a decent time, I'm hoping to start assembling the transmission. I haven't started painting the motor yet, but with the frame almost done, the front axle done, all four wheels done, and possibly getting the transmission together, I'll hopefully have a roller by the weekend. Fingers crossed! 

 

 

 

 

Could somebody please post a picture or two of the toolbox, fenders, and seat spring area of an assembled RJ tractor please? I know the rear lifting cable gets routed through the toolbox, and I know there is a piece of steel that holds it tight to the toolbox, but I want to make sure I use the correct seat spring bolt for mounting this steel. I also want to cut a piece of rubber matting for inside the toolbox, but I'm not sure which bolts will be exposed. I don't want to cover them all if the need to be accessible. 

 

I appreciate the help guys!  

Edited September 12, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[953 nut 55,165]

On 9/10/2016 at 8:43 PM, Johndeereelfman said:

acrylic lacquer clear coat ordered this morning

Your color coats are all air dried enamel, have you ever used lacquer over enamel? I have always heard they are incompatible; you can go with enamel over lacquer but not the other way around. Check with your supplier to be sure. With the beautiful work you have done to this point I would hate to see a problem arise.

[Johndeereelfman 309]

I have contacted Van Sickle Paint, the manufacturers of the Tallmans Ag paint that I'm using Richard, and they reassured me that their acrylic lacquer was specially formulated to be compatible with their industrial enamel paint that I'm using. Troy, my contact person there, recommends that each of my parts have at least 48 hours of drying time before applying the lacquer, which in my case, there will be more than that. I'm going to try it first on a couple of test pieces just to make sure though because at this point, I can't afford to lose time starting all over again. I promised Ryan that I would have his tractor done by the end of the year, and that is what I'm sticking to. If this lacquer doesn't work out, then I'll just stick to the results that I'm getting now, and just be out the money for the two cases that I'm purchasing on Tuesday.  

 

Just as a little side note, Troy at Van Sickle Paints requested a couple pictures of my work and results, so I sent him the pictures of Ryan's fenders, and a couple of pictures of my oldest son's John Deere 70 fenders. Troy said he is amazed at the quality of finish that I'm producing from the rattle cans. He couldn't believe that I wasn't using a spray gun. I finally convinced him after showing him a picture of my empty spray can boxes. He was so impressed, that he wants me to send him pictures of both tractors once they are complete, as I have inspired he and his business partner Dave to start a "Hall of Fame" picture gallery for their website, so that other customers can see the results from their products. I told him I'd be honored to help him out, and would be thrilled to be the first to submit results and feedback. Just a little more incentive to get both of the tractors completed. 

 

I guess the hard work and extra effort pays off better in more ways then one, huh? I can't wait to go to work tomorrow morning and tell the cabinet finisher that I must be doing something right!!! 

[ACman 7,618]

I would definitely try it out on your silver or aluminum painted parts as these colors along with gold sometimes react with clears and run . Just a heads up from personal experience . That was using Rustoleum enamel paint . 

 

I might have have missed it , but did you get hood stand straighten out ?

 

Awsome job by the way  ! Can't wait for assembly .

[slim67 2,735]

meticulous restoration. cant wait to see finished tractor. loved these tractors as a kid myself.

[953 nut 55,165]

8 hours ago, Johndeereelfman said:

I have inspired he and his business partner Dave to start a "Hall of Fame" picture gallery for their website

Your workmanship is great, well deserved complements. I was concerned because that is one of the techniques used to get the "wrinkle" finish in distressed furniture finish; lacquer over enamel.  Guess the 48 hour dry time is the secret.     

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Can you ship me one of your test pieces when you are all done?  I want to hang it on the wall of my garage for encouragement that this CAN in fact be accomplished with spray cans and patience... 

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Thanks guys for the compliments, encouragement, and support. 

[Johndeereelfman 309]

HELP!!!!!!! HELP!!!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!

 

So tonight I thought I'd give a try assembling the transmission. I sat and watched a youtube video after supper, three times, on how to assemble these 5003 transmissions, so afterwards I thought, "That looked easy enough, I'm ready to give it a try". NOT!!!!!

I'm having major troubles, and I'm looking for advice on how to fix my problems.  After removing the tape from the bearings and axle tube, I sealed the gasket to the plate by using some of my daughters nasty lip balm that she doesn't like. Next I inserted the drive hub gear, as well as the brake gear. First thing I noticed about the brake gear is it doesn't sit right in the bearing. Plus, the teeth on the brake gear lay on top of the other bearing as shown in one of the pictures. If that's not a big problem, then here is my next headache. The axle shaft doesn't slide down into the axle tube very easy. Actually, not at all unless I hammer it in. If I hammer it down, it causes enough friction that the axle won't turn.  I filed the end of the axle nice and smooth, however it seems that the new bearings are just not quite big enough. I don't want to continue filing the axle, for fear that I'll file off too much and my new axle seals won't seal properly.  Do you guys normally file out the inside of the bushings? 

 

So what do you all recommend?? Really needing some answers here please. 

 

 

I hammered the axle down into the tube, and it is super tight!! After the pictures were taken, I hammered it back out, and called it a night. So frustrating!!!! 

 

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

@stevasaurus I dont have an answer but I will send out the bat dino signal!

[ACman 7,618]

 @stevasaurus transmission problems !!! I repeat the Elfman needs your   !

 

I do believe that you need to hone out the bushings to fit the axels . You can always go back to Steves thread ( so you want to rebuild that three piece transmission ) but the master  should chime in soon .  

[stevasaurus 22,713]

Excellent pictures and workmanship!!    In the picture where the mushroom gear teeth are hitting the bearing...that bearing needs to be flush with the seat.  It looks to be up a little.  That will help, but it may not take care of all of it.  Sometimes, there is a thrust washer under the bearing that the mushroom gear sits in.  It is not thick, about the thickness of the gasket or less.  It basically holds that bearing from being below flush and the mushroom gear teeth do not hit that other bearing.  Know that these are very fine adjustments...too much thrust washer, and the side plates will pinch the mushroom gear and it will not turn.  The gasket is 1/32" the thrust washer may be 1/32" or 1/64".  If you did not have one in there, which is possible, I think I saw some at TSC.  If you can't find one, and think you need one...I may have one and can mail it to you.

   As far as the axles...yes...you always have to hone them out to fit the axles.  The axles should slip into the side plates with no binding whatsoever.  The right way would be to drill with a 1" bit...but I have been successful using Emory cloth in combination with a hone used for brake cylinders.  A 1" grinder bit in a drill helps also.  It does not take much to make the axles fit.  Do a little and check the fit.  Try to sand where it is tight until it goes in nice.  I will tell you that if you make it too snug, the transmission will bind when you tighten the side bolts and you will have to take it all apart and sand some more.  Hope that helps. 

 

 

 

   Make sure every thing works easily by hand as and when you put it together and before you mount it on the frame.  Ask me how I know that. 

    Troy, what axle seals are you planning on using.  Show me a picture of the inside end of your axle tube please.

 

Picture of the thrust washer.

 

This picture shows an early RJ side plate.  Notice the indentation in the tube.  The bronze bearing would go down flush with the bottom of that indent.  A SKF 9815 seal would go in the indent.  As the bronze wore that seal would start to leak.  Wheel Horse went to a cap seal then that fit over the end of the axle tube...TORO #83-2840.  The TORO seal is what you want to use, or you could use both.

 

 

Cap Seal

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by stevasaurus

[Racinbob 11,048]

Looking great Troy. Those axle bushings gave me fits when I was reassembling my 5010. I addressed it in a thread 'Suburban 400 find in Florida'. Steve and I also had a lot of Skype time talking about it. I could slip both axles in their respective tubes and they turned great. I could assemble everything and it was still good. The second I torqued the side plate it was bind city. Because the axles spun freely when inserted individually that couldn't be the problem, right? Nope. I tore the transmission apart probably a dozen times searching for the culprit. I figured something was getting pinched. Then I assembled it leaving the differential out and it turned freely. Then I assembled it with only the differential in it. Bingo!  As soon as I torqued the side plate bolts it bound up. Loosen them and it was free. After making certain I wasn't pinching the differential housing I decided to hone the bushings a bit more. I used a brake cylinder hone with some open mesh emery wrapped around it. It didn't take much more and all was good. Apparently the axle tubes weren't 100% parallel to each other and as soon as I torqued the bolts it put enough of a bind on the axles to cause the issue.

 

I would suggest using a good thread sealer on the side plate bolts, at least on the lower four. Oil sits on them constantly and I had a little seepage until I sealed them.

[Skeeters65 45]

I was going to pull my transmission apart today to have a look inside. But jeez you guys got me worried now!

[stevasaurus 22,713]

On 9/11/2016 at 7:37 PM, Johndeereelfman said:

Could somebody please post a picture or two of the toolbox, fenders, and seat spring area of an assembled RJ tractor please? I know the rear lifting cable gets routed through the toolbox, and I know there is a piece of steel that holds it tight to the toolbox, but I want to make sure I use the correct seat spring bolt for mounting this steel. I also want to cut a piece of rubber matting for inside the toolbox, but I'm not sure which bolts will be exposed. I don't want to cover them all if the need to be accessible. 

 

I don't have a picture of that for you, but I believe the longer bolt goes toward the front with that metal clip holding the lift tube.  Both bolts will be exposed in the tool box.  Do not use too long of a bolt in those holes if you don't have the old ones.  You could hit the differential inside.     Here is a pic from the gallery without the tool box and fenders.  I'm not sure, but I think you may not use that metal clip when you have the tool box and fenders.  The tool box holds the lift tube in place.  ????? 

 

   Skeeter, you big chicken.    Just make sure you take off the brake shaft side if you just want to take a look. 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by stevasaurus

[Racinbob 11,048]

Here ya go. You do still use that tab to hold the cable Steve. It was the later round hoods that used the tool box.

[Skeeters65 45]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

 

I don't have a picture of that for you, but I believe the longer bolt goes toward the front with that metal clip holding the lift tube.  Both bolts will be exposed in the tool box.  Do not use too long of a bolt in those holes if you don't have the old ones.  You could hit the differential inside.     Here is a pic from the gallery without the tool box and fenders.  I'm not sure, but I think you may not use that metal clip when you have the tool box and fenders.  The tool box holds the lift tube in place.  ????? 

 

   Skeeter, you big chicken.    Just make sure you take off the brake shaft side if you just want to take a look. 

 

So all the gears and such are mounted to the right side plate? I can pull the brake side and clean it that way?

Thanks

[stevasaurus 22,713]

Start your own thread Skeeter...we will walk you through it.  OK???   And it may deserve it's own thread.

 

Right Bob...I do not have anything older then the 702...thanks for the pic...I was thinking Troy's question got lost in the wash. 

 

Edited September 15, 2016 by stevasaurus

[Johndeereelfman 309]

WOW!! You guys are Great!!!  I really appreciate all of the help. 

 

Stevasaurus,

-As for my axle seals, originally they were like yours, the A SKF 9815. Jake Kuhn hooked me up with all of the bearings, bushings, gaskets, and seals, and made the recommendation to use the cap seals TORO #83-2840, so that is what I went with. My axle bushings are down flush with the indent like you pointed out or explained, so I think I'm good to go there. I don't have any hone tools, but I believe I do have a 1" grinding stone like the one you have shown in you picture. Even if I don't, it shouldn't be hard to find one at the local hardware store. I guess I'll be grinding or sanding bushings one night this week, huh? 

-What will it hurt if I go too much? I already filed the ends of the axles, however I think I'll be ok as I only filed about two-three inches in from each end. Should I be concerned about grinding or sanding these axle bushings out to an 1" if I already filed the axles a little? Do I want the axles to be slightly loose or a little on the snug side? 

-You've been tremendous with all of the help and pictures, and it appears that you are the main man when it comes to knowing these transmissions. You wouldn't happen to be the guy who made the youtube videos for assembling these tranny's are you?

 

 

Racinbob,

-Thanks for the picture of the RJ fenders and toolbox, that's exactly what I was looking for. As for sealant around the bottom mounting bolts, I was just going to go with Loc-tite on the threads. Good enough or should I find something else to use instead? 

 

 

Skeeters65,

-No guts, no glory! This is the first transmission I ever tore apart or rebuilt, so if I can do it, so can you. Go for it my Friend!!! 

 

 

 

I don't have anything to report for tonight, as my Daughter had a Field Hockey game, so until we were done eating dinner, it was too late to go out and start anything. Sorry guys! Hopefully tomorrow night will be a little better. Should be getting home from work a little early tomorrow, so maybe I can get back on this transmission then. Should also be picking up the two cases of clear coat tomorrow as well. If the evenings don't turnout to be prosperous, the weekend is just around the corner! 

 

 

On 9/11/2016 at 10:46 PM, ACman said:

I might have have missed it , but did you get hood stand straighten out ?

 

Awsome job by the way  ! Can't wait for assembly .

 

ACman,

-I have not. I tried straightening it with no luck. I finally decided to just paint it and hope that I'll be able to pull it straight when I install the hood.

-Thanks for the compliment. Like you, I can't wait for the assembly either. Shouldn't be much longer as long as the weather continues to hold out. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[stevasaurus 22,713]

Yes Troy, I made the videos.  thanks  I'm glad you hooked up with Jake for those parts, if you did not have those seals, I was going to point you in his direction.  Listen, you want to hone out that bearing...not grind on the axle.  You will not have to pound it in that way.  Don't worry, you will not hone those bushings too far.  You just need to have the axle slide in easily, (not snug) or it will pinch when you bolt up the side plates.  When I do them, I don't really get much, if any slop. (movement from side to side or up and down).  Just do some and then check the fit.  It only takes about 10 to 20 minutes on a side to do.

Do not grind any more on the axles, or your hubs may not tighten up right. 

   You probably should get a hone for brake cylinders...auto zone and parts stores carry them.  I got the little drill bit grinders at
ACE.

 

Not knowing how much you took off the axles, I think you will be OK for sure with what you intend this horse to do.  This is not going to be a worker, it is for you and your son to ride around on.  Thirty years from now, you can replace those bronze bearings again...I'll bet they will still be good. 

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by stevasaurus

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Thanks Steve. I didn't do any grinding on the axles, just filed them smooth where the key way sits. The edges of the key slots were raised a little, so I used a fine file to smooth them down to the axle surface. Once that was done, I went around the entire axle end just to make sure the rest of the axle was smooth. No major filing, and more than likely didn't remove much at all. I think I'll be good.

 

If you look at the inside of the original bushings that I removed from the axle tubes, as well as the grooves that are on the axle shafts, can you tell me what causes this? As mentioned before, I flipped the axle shafts end-for-end, so now I have smooth shafts going into the new bushing chases, however is there anything I can do before assembling the transmission back together, to keep the grooves from happening again in the future to the axles shafts or bushings, or is this just to be considered as normal wear and tear? 

 

I think I'll purchase a brake cylinder hone, as I'm afraid the grinding stones will leave scarring in the bushings, and will eventually wear into my axle shafts. Are these hones expensive, and do you use it as is, or do you still use emory cloth? Sorry if these seem like simple questions, but this all is a new adventure for me.