RJ-58 Restoration

[Johndeereelfman 309]

You might be better off starting a new post with that question Skeeter. Not sure how much traffic this post gets in order to get you the answer that you are looking for. 

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Not much done or to report, however last night and tonight I was able to wet sand the frame and toolbox with 800 grit, and got them both second coated. 

 

 

 

I'll wait a couple days, then hit these again with 1500 grit then again with 2000 grit, applying an additional coat of finish after each sanding. 

 

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,496]

Troy,

Looking good.  Nice job so far and it looks like it's progressing nicely.

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Its pretty rare to see someone come up with such a nice finish from rattle cans! You are very patient and it shows!

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Big score today!!!! I had to run back to my Dad's place this morning, and after leaving his place, I stopped in at a yard sale just to stall for time as I wasn't in a hurry to get home and start on yard work. Anyway, there was a box with some parts in it and this is what I found marked for $2.00. The seller claims it came off of an old tiller that he used to have many years ago that broke a rod, and after finding out how much it would cost to replace the motor, he scrapped the whole works. Somehow though, this blower housing managed to survive, so he threw it in the box of miscellaneous parts. 

 

 

 

Can someone tell me if the coil pull is correct for this RJ? It appears to be the correct one, and if so, this will replace the NOS Kohler one that I started painting. I see there is a " RT" marked on the tag, what does this represent? With the serial number of 656810 and the spec number of 31600A, would it be about the same vintage of my '58 RJ? I don't suppose anyone is reproducing the rubber handles are they? If so, any information would be appreciated. 

Edited August 27, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[wallfish 16,999]

Nice score on the recoil!

The RT is a pull start with gear reduction

[Johndeereelfman 309]

So it's correct for this RJ?

[wallfish 16,999]

The early RJs used Schnake recoils but not sure about the later ones. Think they might have been those Fairbanks. Either way that recoil is a good one and MUCH more reliable than a Schnake plus they look period correct compared to the stamped steel recoils.

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by wallfish

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Thanks John, I appreciate the help! 

[wallfish 16,999]

No Problem,

Here's a good thread on the different K91 recoils.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/63036-k91-recoil/?page=1

 

Are you going to need a cup for that Fairbanks recoil?

Also check the vendor section, Maybe Glen Pettit makes those handles or at least something that works. 

[Johndeereelfman 309]

I have a cup and screen that were sitting on the seat when I purchased the tractor. The rope pull pulley was installed on the motor. I haven't checked yet, but I'm hoping the aluminum cup that I have will work with either the Kohler recoil or this Fairbanks recoil. The cup is what I think is a deep cup. The Kohler recoil doesn't have near the mounting leg lengths that the Fairbanks does. I didn't pull the flywheel off the motor yet, so maybe I can mount the blower housing tomorrow to see which type of recoil will work best with the cup that I have. Without really checking these recoils out thoroughly, I believe the Kohler recoil has one retractable dog used for catching the cup, whereas the Fairbanks has two retractable dogs that catch the cup. You can't really tell the depth of the cup nor the length of the Kohler mounting legs in this picture, but hopefully you'll be able to tell which type of cup I have.  What I don't get though, is how do the retractable dogs catch the cup, if the recoil disc and the cup lip are almost the same diameter? 

 

 

 

***After further review, I found that the Kohler coil housing and the cup flange are indeed almost the same diameter, and will not work together. However, the Fairbanks Morse recoil that I purchased today, not only works with the cup, but with the rope pulley as well. A very good day and investment indeed. 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Johndeereelfman
Update

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Yesterday I spent the entire day wet sanding all of the parts that I have painted up to this point, and was able to get another coat on all of them. I was in a hurry to get them coated and back in the garage before bugs started landing, so I don't have any pictures. Sorry. The other things I got done yesterday was getting the blower housing, head tin, seat spring, and both of the drive pulleys stripped and primed. 

 

Tonight was again, limited time, however I did manage to get the seat spring second coated with primer (due to needing to fill some minor rust pits) and a first coat of finish on the blower housing. 

 

 

 

OK, now the interesting part. I've been confronted and told that my painting techniques are not correct and are a waste of time. I spend too much time wet sanding between coats, and should save the wet sanding for last after I apply the clear coats. I'm being told that the clear coating is what gives the shine, not the paint. According to this individual, I'm supposed to apply three to four coats of finish, allowing 10-15 minutes of drying time between coats, then after a couple days of having the last coat of finish applied, I'm to start laying down layers of clear coat. After three to four layers of clear coat have been applied and dried, then I'm supposed to start wet sanding with 1500 and 2000 grit paper. Once the clear coats are sanded and smooth, I'm supposed to start bringing back the shine by using polishing compound. Once the desired shine or finish is achieved, I have to wait four months before applying a good wax. 

 

Now, with this all said, is this how you guys paint your tractors? Those of you that have been following this post, know that I have been wet sanding between finish coats, as this is how I was taught by my Grandfather when I was younger. He used to restore old pedal cars back in the day, and believe me, they looked awesome!  Am I doing this wrong? What is the difference if I sand between finish coats and then apply the clear, compared to waiting until sanding after the clear is applied?  I personally think my way gives a much deeper looking finish, but that's just me. What do you guys think? Can I keep going like I am, or should I start all over?   

Edited September 11, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[wallfish 16,999]

This is how I do it,

Don't Sand a Single Thing!

And cover it in "Patina"

Saves a bunch of time too.

 

[Abe01 61]

Hellove yay this is my first contributing post! I hate not having anything to ad to the convo and I'm still learning about these little wonders......however I do know about paint, first off the theory is that if you wet sand between coats you won't achive adhesion. I personally think if your prep was good and you clean and dry after wet sanding you will be fine as the paint molecules should seek out and adhere to each other. The clear does add a certain luster but in modern paints is really just there to protect the paint so if you get faded paint you can sand through clear coat and not remove as much paint so re-sprays are easier. I have painted quite a bit if I just want it to look nice I paint using the traditional method, if I want it to look flawless I use the same method you have been using. My opinion is just like in machining the smother the material before the smother finish you can achive.....the person that "corrected"  you I'm assuming is an auto motive painter or 

Edited August 30, 2016 by Abe01
Typo

[Skeeters65 45]

Oh man when you told me how much paint and primer you used last week you never said anything about clear. I didn't know you were using clear coat as well. 

 

How many any cans of that do I need also?

 

I almost ordered paint today. Glad I held off. 

[Johndeereelfman 309]

49 minutes ago, Abe01 said:

Hellove yay this is my first contributing post! I hate not having anything to ad to the convo and I'm still learning about these little wonders......however I do know about paint, first off the theory is that if you wet sand between coats you won't achive adhesion. I personally think if your prep was good and you clean and dry after wet sanding you will be fine as the paint molecules should seek out and adhere to each other. The clear does add a certain luster but in modern paints is really just there to protect the paint so if you get faded paint you can sand through clear coat and not remove as much paint so re-sprays are easier. I have painted quite a bit if I just want it to look nice I paint using the traditional method, if I want it to look flawless I use the same method you have been using. My opinion is just like in machining the smother the material before the smother finish you can achive.....the person that "corrected"  you I'm assuming is an auto motive painter or 

 

No, not an auto motive painter. He is a cabinet and furniture finisher. He comes across as a know-it-all, and can be very annoying at times. I told him, you do it your way and I'll do it mine. As long as we both get the same results, who cares who's method is best or faster. 

 

As for your advice, I do spend a lot of time in prepping my parts. I'm a firm believer that proper prep will go a long way and give the best results. When I wet sand between coats, each piece has roughly a 4-5 day dry time before sanding. Sometimes, depending on my work schedule hours, I may not get back to working on the tractor parts for a week or two. The picture that I posted of my Son's John Deere fender assembly, had drying time of weeks between coats, and I still don't have a clear coat applied yet. With the way it's shining now, I can't wait to see what it will look like after the clear coats are applied and it's all buffed out. My finishes may not be perfect, and my methods or techniques may not be the best, however I think the end results turnout to be pretty nice.

 

Some guys want to know why I choose rattle cans for painting instead of using a spray gun and better quality paint. Well, I've been to numerous tractor shows throughout the years and have seen numerous tractors that have been painted with spray guns and high dollar quality paint. Frankly, I think the finish looks extremely thick or heavy. With rattle cans, the finish can be made to look more even and almost give a slimmer paint appearance. Make sense?  I'm not down grading or busting on the guys out there that like the thinker or heavy paint finishes, it's just not my taste, so please don't take any of this personal. Most tractors that came from factory back then weren't all shinny or have automotive type finish appearances. So whenever I paint or restore one of these old machines, I try to bring it back like it might have looked like from the day it was bought new. Again, just my taste and opinion. No offense to anyone. 

 

16 minutes ago, Skeeters65 said:

Oh man when you told me how much paint and primer you used last week you never said anything about clear. I didn't know you were using clear coat as well. 

 

How many any cans of that do I need also?

 

I almost ordered paint today. Glad I held off. 

 

Sorry Skeeter, but yes, I'll be applying clear coat once all of the pieces are finally finished to my liking. As far as how much, I really don't know yet as I haven't purchased any myself. Figuring at least three coats on everything, I'd figure at least 2 cases, possibly 3 to be safe. You can always store what you don't use up. 

Edited August 30, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

I think that your work shows that you are doing just fine. I am no paint expert, but I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, and I am not going to go around telling people how to do something unless they ask. I know for certain that if you asked 300 members how they paint you would have 301 different answers.

 

It is funny how this person was not confident enough to make their opinion public... I would tell them to go pound sand and keep doing what you are doing.  

 

I apologize that there was even someone that would say that,  I know that most of the membership here is kind and respectful of each other and all of our different ways of doing things.

[953 nut 55,224]

14 hours ago, Johndeereelfman said:

cabinet and furniture finisher. He comes across as a know-it-all

Your "know it all" friend is working on flat straight surfaces and most of his work won't be seen in bright sunlight. The thing that makes a finish look smooth is being able to reflect light evenly. When paint is sprayed it is essentially a bunch of droplets of paint sitting next to each other; wet sanding flattens out the tops of the droplets. I agree with the method you are using, if there is a flaw you will discover it early enough to correct it rather than burying it under several coats of finish. I begin wet sanding with the primer using 600, apply a coat of finish and wet sand with 1200 and examine it. Two more coats and wet sand with 1200 followed with 2000. Now it is smooth enough to use polishing compound. On items that will be likely to get heavy use you can clear coat after the two finish coats an 1200. The smoother you keep it the better it will look in the sun. 

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Thanks for the encouragement Brandon and Richard. The more I thought about what he said, the more I was starting to second guess myself. Right or wrong, I'm confident that my grandfather would have been proud.

 

This individual that decided to add his two cents worth is working on the project that I'm currently at through work. I'm sure he isn't a member of any forums, in fact, I'd be surprised if he actually knew the difference between a lawn tractor and a garden tractor. 

 

Thanks again guys, I'll keep going as I'm doing.  

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

4 hours ago, Johndeereelfman said:

Thanks for the encouragement Brandon and Richard. The more I thought about what he said, the more I was starting to second guess myself. Right or wrong, I'm confident that my grandfather would have been proud.

 

This individual that decided to add his two cents worth is working on the project that I'm currently at through work. I'm sure he isn't a member of any forums, in fact, I'd be surprised if he actually knew the difference between a lawn tractor and a garden tractor. 

 

Thanks again guys, I'll keep going as I'm doing.  

 

Im glad to hear that it wasnt someone from on here! I just assumed... but we all know what that does... 

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Tonight I was able to get about 45 minutes of work in on the RJ. I wet sanded the blower housing with 800 grit paper, then applied a second coat of finish. This blower housing is in really nice shape, with no dings or dents, so I was careful when stripping the paint last weekend, not to get the wire wheel too close to the letters, so that I wouldn't round off the sharp corners. Once the housing was completely stripped, I used a flat head dentist pick to chip away the paint that remained between the letters and around the edges. Should be much easier painting the letters later when everything is all done. 

 

 

I received the oil bath breather and the rear cooling tin in the mail yesterday, so tonight I was able to get them completely stripped and first coated with primer. This picture is before stripping.

Which, by the way, what color does the oil bath breather get painted? I was thinking red, however I'm giving it some thought to maybe paint it gloss black to help break up all of the red a little. What ya think? 

 

 

I pulled one of the fenders out tonight, to see how it is looking, as I feel like I'm done wet sanding and painting these. I personally think they are ready for clear coat. What do you guys think? Should I wet sand and re-coat anymore, or just move onto clear coat? 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[953 nut 55,224]

On 8/29/2016 at 9:21 PM, Johndeereelfman said:

Gloss Black

Most air cleaners you see are black, I think that is how they came from the factory and it looks good.

[Johndeereelfman 309]

I guess I should ask also, does this get a decal of some sort? If so, does anybody have an extra that they would want to sell? 

[russellmc301 600]

if you mean the oil bath i think not,

just i have no clue.

 

what type of clear do you use?

[Johndeereelfman 309]

Since this will be the first time clear coating, I'm going to try Tallmans gloss acrylic lacquer. I'm very happy with the results of their colors, so I figure their clear has to be just as good. I'm not quite ready yet to start clear coating, as I want to wait and do all of the parts at the same time, but hopefully it won't be much longer.