6/8 speed transmission odd issue

[Deadguy 861]

I have an 857 that the previous owner installed a 6/8 speed transmission into.  It has been working great for me for the past couple years, but now something strange and awful has happened.  When put into gear, the tractor does not move.  The transmission input pulley is spinning, and the brake drum turns at the speed of the gear selected, but the wheels do not turn.  However, if I push the wheels by hand, the tractor will start to accelerate weakly, but so weakly that I can grab the drive wheel with my hand and stop the tractor while it is still in gear.  Is there anything that I should be expecting when I open up the transmission?

[roadapples 6,983]

Check axle keys in hubs and drive pulley before you tear it apart...

[Deadguy 861]

The brake drum spins at the speed it should be spinning, whether the tractor is moving or not, so the key in the drive pulley has to be good, right?

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,175]

19 minutes ago, roadapples said:

Check axle keys in hubs

I'd first go with what roadapples said...

[roadapples 6,983]

I also would check the clutch lever just in front of the break. Had that spring pin shear off. Through vibration, sometimes it would work and sometimes not. Gave me a fit `till I stumbled on to it..

[Deadguy 861]

Thanks for the tips! I will report my findings after I get a chance to check it out after work, and IF the hubs come off!

[Racinbob 11,035]

If you can't get them off I'd say they aren't the problem Seriously, I agree that they are most likely the problem. Remember, it only takes one sheared key to cause your problem.

 

9 hours ago, Deadguy said:

The brake drum spins at the speed it should be spinning, whether the tractor is moving or not, so the key in the drive pulley has to be good, right?

 

Not necessarily. Under no load it may not be slipping.

[Deadguy 861]

Yeah, I just took a look, right before I leave for work, and there is a woodruff key sticking out at a funny angle from one of the hubs.  Any good sources for these keys, or do Toro dealer/service centers still carry them?

[Racinbob 11,035]

Your local hardware store should have them.

Make sure the leyway in both the axle and hub are in good shape.

[Deadguy 861]

The local hardware store also happens to be the local Toro service center.  If the leyway in the axle is chewed up, is it big trouble?

[Racinbob 11,035]

Depends on how bad it is. There are ways to repair them. Post a picture if you have damage.

[Deadguy 861]

Here is what I found.  The leyway in the axle looks great, the leyway in the hub is a little chewy, but should be serviceable for now, and a woodruff key with a big missing chunk. The hub had drifted inward on the axle, then the unsupported key surface drifted upward, and the little bit of key in contact with the hub sheared off.  I have measured the axle, and it is 1 1/8" in diameter.  Does this help identify the transmission and the size key needed?

[moe1965 735]

Kinda looks like my issue I have now but my shaft is a 1 in.   It got chewed up a little and measures .990.  I'm having a friend turn me some new hubs 

[Racinbob 11,035]

I think you'll be OK. Obviously the hub has been welded. It looks well done but it would bug me. The key is 1/4" wide x 1" long, radius height 7/16". You may want to install new seals while you have the hub off. Make sure you clean any burrs off before you slide the new seal on. It wouldn't be a bad idea to drill and tap for a second set screw 90 degrees off the existing one.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Racinbob

[stevasaurus 22,700]

You have an 8 speed transmission...not a 6 speed.  The brake drum is on the cluster gear shaft.  Looking at your fill plug, I am going to guess it is an 8 pinion...not a 10 pinion limited slip.  If if is in fact an 8 pinion, it is probably a Wheel Horse #5091...but it could be a 103907, 103916 or a 103918.  Very little difference between those. 

[Deadguy 861]

1 hour ago, Racinbob said:

I think you'll be OK. Obviously the hub has been welded. It looks well done but it would bug me. The key is 1/4" wide x 1" long, radius height 7/16". You may want to install new seals while you have the hub off. Make sure you clean any burrs off before you slide the new seal on. It wouldn't be a bad idea to drill and tap for a second set screw 90 degrees off the existing one.

Nope, this woodruff key is definitely larger than 1".

[Deadguy 861]

20 minutes ago, Deadguy said:

Nope, this woodruff key is definitely larger than 1".

It is 1 3/8" long, 1/4" thick, and 9/16" high with a flat bottom.

[Racinbob 11,035]

My apologies. The aging gray matter between my ears forgot about the transmission swap. 

It may be a good thing your hardware store is also a Toro dealer. 

[Deadguy 861]

2 hours ago, Racinbob said:

My apologies. The aging gray matter between my ears forgot about the transmission swap. 

It may be a good thing your hardware store is also a Toro dealer. 

No worries!  But the thing is, even though this is the supposed 8 speed, the part look up system said it used a 1" key.  So that did not help.  Then again, their system only went back to 1980, so it is possible the 1 3/8" key was discontinued before then. I ended up having to order a 10 pack of 1 3/8" keys from McMaster Carr . So, if anyone here needs a 1 3/8" key, I just may have an extra for you!

[stevasaurus 22,700]

I think you would find the old WH #937022 for that Woodruff Key.    It looks like TORO has a new number for it, not sure if the new number is the right size.

[Deadguy 861]

The new keys from McMaster Carr arrived today.  I installed the new key, and now my tractor is happy again!  Thank you everyone for your help, and if anyone needs a #22 Woodruff key for their horse, just let me know and I'll mail one out.  Thanks again!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,030]

On 6/3/2016 at 9:04 PM, Deadguy said:

No worries!  But the thing is, even though this is the supposed 8 speed, the part look up system said it used a 1" key.  So that did not help.  Then again, their system only went back to 1980, so it is possible the 1 3/8" key was discontinued before then. I ended up having to order a 10 pack of 1 3/8" keys from McMaster Carr . So, if anyone here needs a 1 3/8" key, I just may have an extra for you!

 

Here is where the #22 key was used

Garry

 

Adding - Thought this may have been a way to identify what model transmission you have but with the 2 parts numbers showing up it's anyone's guess.

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

 My Raider 10 appears to have some slop in the tranny. it is possible to shift into the lowest gear 1st gear in low range and there is some hesitation before the tractor moves forward. It probably sits for 2 seconds or so before moving. It is also possible to shift it into gear without clutching in that gear if the engine is off idle. I wonder about if woodruff key could be causing this as well.

 

 Another thing is it seems as if the clutch really has to be depressed a bunch to overcome the starter lockout on the IGN switch. I love this old Horse already with maybe 12 hours on it since bought. right now, I am in the process of adding the new gear oil, and am not sure if it will take more than two quarts.

 

 You guys rock, and seem helpful to everyone with problems.

Edited June 11, 2016 by ohiofarmer

[stevasaurus 22,700]

@ohiofarmer  I would check the woodruff keys also...it does sound like the same problem.  Let us know. 

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

 I have checked one side and am pretty sure that I need the Woodruff key replacement. However, I need to make a gear puller from a Chevy brake drum and a long reach socket to make sure that I do not break the wheel hub. Film at 11.  I need to run the machine and do not want to run the risk of having it apart without the replacement keys.

 

 The machine is a Raider 10 with the Kohler, so I think that makes it a 1973 or newer.