my 400 suburban rebuild

[psalms83:18 174]

so heres some pics of what I have done in the Las week.

 

so above was the results of soaking in diesel for a week. And though some things wiggle I still cant, as the manual directs, pull out the spline shaft and other shaft....(first pic above)...

I'm wondering if in the next pics the damage from these bolts are indicative of someone else has been in there and not only put the wrong bolts in backwards but maybe they put the gears in wrong also? Thinking cause all the gears wiggle and move separately but wont turn together as a whole unit.

[psalms83:18 174]

these pics are some results of what the phosphoric acid did to some nuts bolts and a pulley.. I was happy with how it turned out, u can see a bolt at the top of the pile that was treated with just diesel. And the pulley has a line across the middle of it where u can see only half was in the phos, and though it wouldnt budge before it now spins.

and heres some more pics that ill just say a pic says a thousand words.

[stevasaurus 22,738]

From what I can see, your trans is put together correctly.  The differential has the nuts to the left side as it should...the length of those bolts is in the parts list, if those are too long.  If you can't get the spline shaft out and/or that reduction gear off of the cluster gear shaft, I suggest you take off the other side plate.  The mushroom gear will come out then (from the right side) and you can work backwards from the manual to get the rest out.    The diesel fuel really just loosens things up.  The phosphate thingy looks interesting for sure. 

[psalms83:18 174]

the other side plate will not let go of the gears (I think the cluster and the long spline against the diff) even though they all wiggle its as though they have a pin driven to hold them to the side plate?! I mean they are on that strong! It slides on the axle shaft and the drive shaft but nothing pulling. So I thought to put it back together since everything wiggling, and I tried to make things spin again...gears will move and play but one input wont spin another and the axle shafts wont spin the brake shaft etc...

I used heat on the spline shaft hoping it would help pull but nothing budged....and I have nothing good to grab or push against to pull that shaft out, I'm worried pulling on it too hard will put to much force on the shifter forks

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

If you can't get the spline shaft out and/or that reduction gear off of the cluster gear shaft, I suggest you take off the other side plate. 

trying that, i think i bent the other side plate and something on the differential is pulled out cause now the first plate doesnt sit back down all the way...

[Racinbob 11,077]

You shouldn't have to use much force to disassemble it. How did you bend the side plate? I wouldn't worry about getting back on for now. You need to get all the gears out, cleaned and everything checked then reassemble.

 

The two broken threaded holes in the case weren't broke in post 15. That tells me you should have the broken off pieces. Save them and you can do a fix like Steve did in post #24 then tack the pieces back in so the gasket has something to seal to.

[psalms83:18 174]

good eye... Those peices I did actually lose,(all but one tiny piece) cause when I took those first pics I had his taken off the cover, when I started to rinse out the crud they must have been broken but stuck together or just cracked,..kinda crappy cause I didn't notice they were "not" broken till I saw in the pics they were once intact!?!

17 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

You shouldn't have to use much force to disassemble it. How did you bend the side plate? I wouldn't worry about getting back on for now. You need to get all the gears out, cleaned and everything checked then reassemble.

 

 

i know it ""shouldnt" need much force but at what point does something require force when its not budging? I did go gentle at first then after soaking i gave it alittle persuasion, and now before i ""force"" it i am open to ideas and plans?

yes definetly I will have to take everything out to be cleaned checked and I was hoping putting it back together and trying to spin things would have freed it up more, or at least start over and see what else I can do.

 

keep it comin guys I appreciate the advice, I am going to review some other threads on these rear ends...

[psalms83:18 174]

 

PS..

phosphoric acid is on order 3 gallons worth...55$ per gallon

 

50$ for metal prep prior to epoxy primer-40$

[stevasaurus 22,738]

Holy cow...OK...I would try to work that right side plate with a 2' crow bar and work it around to break things loose.  You get the right side plate off and you can get everything out of the casing.  If the shift forks are that rusted, and holding the fork gears, and the spline shaft...that is OK.  The rest should come out.  Some pictures of your progress would be very helpful.  We can walk you through this with good pictures.    I just opened one that drained at least 1/2 gallon of water with no oil in the case...and I got it apart.  I did have to Saws-All the nuts on the differential.

 

[Racinbob 11,077]

.......but.....not even close to enough force to bend a side plate. I wouldn't worry about why it won't turn right now. Just getting apart is the priority. Then, after the cleaning, replacing any bearings needed, etc. You can put it back together and it should spin.........if the side plate is OK. 

 

Steve, where did that one come from. It's a mess! 

[stevasaurus 22,738]

That is a present from Brrly1...this is what he gave me for hauling that 4 wheeler to Mentone from SmokinJoe's.  I'd rather have the money for the 1/2 tank of gas I used to do that.

    This is a 2 piece transmission.  After I got a few of the pieces out, I ended up popping out the shift rails to get the fork gears and the spline shaft out and apart.  A 2' crow bar and a small ball peen hammer were my friends.  Psalms...you may need to do the same thing. 

[psalms83:18 174]

ahhh gotta type this again...

 

so I think I said:

so "use the force" (closest thing to a Jedi...lol)

which should I try pulling first the spline the cluster or the plate. And I'm nervous about what I lever against, the case or the gears...should I just go hail marry and force the plate off and see what needs to be done after that??

[stevasaurus 22,738]

That spline shaft should be first out, but it is stuck and you can break the forks if you force that...so leave that alone for now.  The next thing that you may get out is that large reduction gear on top of the cluster gear shaft, but that will not do you any good if you cannot get the trans into 2nd gear.  The trans needs to be in 2nd gear to get the cluster gear and shaft out.  So, it comes down to the right side plate.  Place the transmission on a surface like it would be mounted on the horse.  So it is sitting on the bottom of the casting.  Try to loosen the side plate and see if you can tell which of the 4 shafts are holding it.  1. the differential, 2. the mushroom gear, 3. the cluster gear shaft, 4. the input shaft.  My guess is that the cluster gear shaft is rusted to it's bearing, and you may have to force it enough to un-seat the bearing.  You may be able to use a punch and hammer from the inside to tap the plate out.  Let us know. 

[psalms83:18 174]

this is where I started today

[psalms83:18 174]

that side pulls off sooo easily

then all of four of the gears on the other side plate wiggle freely but would not slip from the bearings or there seatings...

so I pulled and pushed them out..and it took quite a bit of force but nothing seemed damaged yet

well that part was a fight

and the next three were also

[psalms83:18 174]

so that smaller gear there...is that stripped or supposed to be less at the tip cause it actually kinda set into the other gear ahead of it

and this was just the last peices

[psalms83:18 174]

then my phone died....but I finished taking the diff apart. And i will take before and afters of the different dips and metal prep

[Racinbob 11,077]

It's not stripped. There's some wear but it may be OK. It engages the internal teeth of the 3523 3rd/2nd gear. Once you get them cleaned up take a good picture of both gears.The engagement of the two is a weak link in these transmissions and the cause of them slipping out of 3rd gear.

[Horse46 519]

Good thread this, every day is a school day.

[stevasaurus 22,738]

Psalms...you got it done!!!  Excellent      Great pictures also...thanks.  That is exactly how you needed to tackle that tranny. 

Were you able to get the spline shaft out of the fork gears and take the fork gears off the shift forks?? 

[WHX?? 48,815]

Yes excellent job, that one looks savable. Just be glad you didn't have one like this....how he saved this one is beyond me. Pics courtesy of @Shynon

[WHX?? 48,815]

By the way Psalms  that clutch idler pulley is savable as well ... http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/61433-pulleys-idlers-for-free/

 

[psalms83:18 174]

3 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Psalms...you got it done!!!  Excellent      Great pictures also...thanks.  That is exactly how you needed to tackle that tranny. 

Were you able to get the spline shaft out of the fork gears and take the fork gears off the shift forks?? 

spline shaft still has gears on it though one was ready to slip off I didnt pull them all off...and the forks seem to move now and are intact at first glance..

2 hours ago, WHX61/3 said:

By the way Psalms  that clutch idler pulley is savable as well ... http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/61433-pulleys-idlers-for-free/

 

clutch idler pulley??oooo from previous post where I dipped half right?? Thanks for the link.

[WHX?? 48,815]

Yes that pully

[psalms83:18 174]

so from this to that, in three parts water one part phos, in the time it took me to cook a ribeye steak med rare and eat it....not long but I also didnt want to leave it in over night yet so I took it out

 

this is my current tank setup from left to right black tank -etank....barrel with cover is diesel....and blue tupperware -phos tanks

[nhmikel 14]

Be safe wear gloves