K91 recoil ?

[ACman 7,621]

K90 parts list Schnake recoil . @jsp_333 looks like they used cable in the recoil .

 

[jsp_333 268]

ACman thanks.

I thought I had seen that somewhere

Does that mean my recoil is more valuable because it has original cable. 

Just kidding. Can't find a tongue-in-cheek emoticon.

Actually the wire has started to fray so I think it's going to be used in photos only.

[AMC RULES 37,134]

That's why I was asking Wallfish John about the stamped steel recoils being proprietary to one manufacturer or another...

because the what I believed was a Kohler recoil I have here, looks virtually indentical to the Tecumseh version shown in my previous pict. 

The only slight difference is the thickness of the steel stamping (thinner), and the 1/8th inch flattened edge around it's perimeter. 

[ACman 7,621]

Ok guys , here's a closeup of rope starter on the 58 notice the large diameter , and the lack of a flange that goes behind the shroud . Any ideas what it's off of ?

[wallfish 17,084]

2 hours ago, jsp_333 said:

Actually the wire has started to fray so I think it's going to be used in photos only.

You can find a repop kit on ebay to fix it.

[AlwaysLookin80 1,308]

This is a great post. I have a few k91s with no pull start and I need to fix them. 

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,176]

@Racinbob Bob, Later this week , I'll go out to my barn and see if my Tecumseh recoil and cup will work on a k-91.  I'm thinking not...but I need to prove it first.

[Racinbob 11,240]

I've got this Tecky H60 that was on a 500 Special when it was given to me (not original). As you can see the recoil isn't even close but most Tecky recoils look very similar to the Kohler. I think Jake has used them on his restorations. Later today I'll open this up and see what the cup looks like.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Racinbob

[ACman 7,621]

48 minutes ago, Terry M said:

@Racinbob Bob, Later this week , I'll go out to my barn and see if my Tecumseh recoil and cup will work on a k-91.  I'm thinking not...but I need to prove it first.

Has to be the right cup . Like AMC said " short cup "

I have four k90/91's . The red one and the blue one with rope starters ,another with the techy type and my latest one I don't even know what it has . I'll have to get someone to dig it out for me so I an get some pics . Still haven't came across a pic of a rope starter like the one on red one . I've searched different makes and models , nothing . Closest I've found so far is one for a K181 but the flange that would go behind the shroud would have to be cut off .

 

Anybody have any ideas on this ? 

Edited May 10, 2016 by ACman

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,176]

47 minutes ago, ACman said:

Has to be the right cup . Like AMC said " short cup "

I hope your right ACman...I guessIi'll soon find out

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,176]

Well, Looks like the Tecumseh "short" recoil cup IS what you need.  Took a few minutes yesterday to just try my Tecky cups and recoil (from H/HH60 engines) on a k91.

[AMC RULES 37,134]

[ACman 7,621]

The  has spoken !  

[ACman 7,621]

A little update on this rope pull . 

 

There was a NOS K91 at the big show and it had the same pully . I asked if he knew anything about it . He told me it was for a starter/generator .

[Skeeters65 45]

On May 13, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Terry M said:

Well, Looks like the Tecumseh "short" recoil cup IS what you need.  Took a few minutes yesterday to just try my Tecky cups and recoil (from H/HH60 engines) on a k91.

So let me see if I got this right?

i have a K91 with a rope pull start on it. I want to put a Techy recoil pull start on it. So I buy a Techy recoil start and a Techy "short" recoil start cup?

do you happen to have a part number for that?

 

Thanks

[Racinbob 11,240]

You will need a Kohler 46 109 01 starter cup. I just looked and ebay has them. Search Kohler starter cup.

[Skeeters65 45]

Cup and recoil start ordered. 

When they arrive I will check function and post dimensions of the cup. 

 

Thanks for the help Racinbob!

[Skeeters65 45]

Hey everyone I got the recoil starter and the cup installed today. They work perfect. 

Kohler cup part number. 

46 109 01-S

Dimensions

1.25 inches deep inside the cup

2.75 inches width outside 

2.25 inches width inside

 

This was used in conjunction with a Tecumseh recoil starter # 590420A     59076 16575

 

Let me know if you need any other info on this. 

 

[Johndeereelfman 309]

I don't know if this will be any help to you guys, but here is what I found out this afternoon. My 1958 RJ-58 only had the rope pulley installed when I bought the tractor, however there was a cup and a screen laying on the seat. No recoil included. A few years ago I found a NOS Kohler recoil for $15.00, so I jump at buying hoping it would fit my K-91. Today, after stopping at a yard sale, I picked up a blower housing that had a Fairbanks recoil attached to it for $2.00, so I bought it. After reading these posts tonight, I figured I'll check to see what I have and make sure it all will work when it comes time to assemble the motor. 

 

After checking things out, I found that the aluminum cup that came with the tractor was the same diameter as the coil housing of the Kohler recoil, and in no way was going to work. However, after checking out the Fairbanks recoil, I found that the cup not only fit nicely, but the rope pulley can be utilized as well. Here are a couple of pictures that show what I'm trying to explain:

 

Aluminum Cup:

 

The two prongs/stems on the back of the cup are spread just enough to fit over one of the rope pulley twisted leg supports. Also notice there are no grooves or notches for the recoil dogs to catch. The dogs dig in with natural resistance.

 

 

Kohler:

 

***The Kohler recoil only has one retractable dog to catch the cup. 

 

 

Fairbanks Morse:

 

***The Fairbanks recoil has two retractable dogs to catch the cup.

 

Rope Pulley:

 

 

 

Cup and Rope Pulley together inside the Fairbanks recoil:

 

 

Again, don't know if this post or these pictures will help any of you guys, but I thought I'd try and help if I can. Good luck to you all! 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Johndeereelfman

[evanloock 221]

The Fairbanks-Morse recoil cup is already set up to be used as a back up rope starter (notice the cutouts), the large rope starter pulley was used with the Schnacke recoil.  

[Johndeereelfman 309]

27 minutes ago, evanloock said:

The Fairbanks-Morse recoil cup is already set up to be used as a back up rope starter (notice the cutouts), the large rope starter pulley was used with the Schnacke recoil.  

 

But the notches on the cup will be almost tight up against the back of the recoil. There would be no way to wrap a rope around the cup without removing the recoil first. Then again, you'd have to remove the recoil in order to wrap a rope around the large rope pulley too, so I guess either can only work with the recoil removed. I think I'm still going to mount both of them so that neither of them get misplaced or lost in the future. They all seem to line up well and don't interfere with each other, so I don't think it will hurt anything to have them all installed together. Could be wrong though I guess. 

[evanloock 221]

You have to remove the recoil to use the cup as a rope starter.  It is a backup if the recoil fails and would be removed prior to using the cup.

[Lane Ranger 10,992]

I took some pictures yesterday of two recoil starters I have for Kohler  4 HP  K 90 or 91 motors.      

 

The first is of my restored Schnacke recoil that Joe Papke helped rebuild for me.   He did an excellent job.    I did not realise I had two Schnacke hex bolts for the flywheel.  They are different lengths due to application on different motors.   This is noted in the Schnacke literature posted on page one (for the hex type  Schnacke Recoil as opposed to the  tooth type).

 

 

 

 

I have a different recoil which is a New Old Stock Fairbank Morse Recoil and cup  that was made for use on a  4 HP Kohler housing and I plan on using it on one of my RJ's.   

 

 

Between my brother and I we have four RJ's and I am hoping to have four different type of recoils on the four tractors for demonstration purposes.   

 

 

[Aldon 4,827]

Excellent thread. Very informative. 

[WHX?? 49,191]

Yes it is, don't know how I missed it while pulling my hair out with my own recoil issues.

Wonder why @ACman's pics all disappeared? Something to do with not being a SUPORTER you suppose?