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HorseFixer

Started Working In The Horse Stable!

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Butch

Thanks Duke! :thumbs: Duff I haven't heard anything about this new PT lumber yet. I don't even know how long it has been tested in the field for rot. And I sure hopes it's "pressure" treated and not dipped. I haven't heard anything about screws or nails rusting yet. My neighbor is a framer and my sons friend owns a bulkhead company and I haven't heard any complaints channeling through yet. I never liked galvanized nails. I prefer hot dip when I can find them. They can be hard to find. Best nails I ever came across is from a company called Maze. Great nails if you can find them. I nailed the cedar siding to my house 21 years ago with Maze nails. The heads haven't rusted or stained the siding and the suckers still have a ton of gripping power. My deck also has Maze deck nails. They're much stronger than deck screws. The down side is you can't yank them out without a lot of effort. You wind up tearing up the deck.

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Duff

Duff I had a simular situation a couple years ago myself and checked into what you said and found that they are now making coated deck screws for treated lumber that are like gauranteed for 50 years. If you look on top of that beam you will see coated screws there are only a handfull of nails used anywhere on the horse barn everything is screwed and predrilled before screwed thats why you see somany drills around in the jobsite.

I have been told the reason there is a chemical reaction is because of constant moisture of the decks treated lumber being outside in the weather. I have also heard that the chemical in the treated lumber doesn't like the zinc in the galvanized coating :lol: I donot belive in the dry there will be a problem. :whistle:

I shoulda known you'd be on top of this situation! You are DA MAN! :whistle:

Also glad to see I'm not the only one who builds everything with screws and glue. (I keep a collection of sizes of the 50 yr. ceramic screws around) My shop is only 12x24 freestanding, but I'll bet there isn't a quarter pound of nails in the entire structure. Deck screws and S/S lag bolts on the other hand....oh yeah! :banana:

I intentionally framed and built my shop so if I ever move, it can be jacked up and go with me. It's already a foot off the ground on 8x8 PT posts. But my interior doesn't hold a candle to yours - nice work, guy! :thumbs:

Duff :dunno:

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linen beige

Butch, as I was reading your post I instantly thought "I bet he's never tried Maze nails." then in the next line you mention them. You're right about the holding power. You just about have to cut the heads with a grinder and drive them through with a punch to take things apart.

I used Maze nails on a few parts of my deck in '01, (older CCA treated wood.) with the rest fastened with what looks like the same coated screws Duke is using. Last year I redid the landing and stairs and found most of the screws corroded, but the nails were still good as new.

Duke, Is the new type pressure treated allowed in indoor apps.? They stopped allowing pressure treated down here. Not even for a sill plate in a basement wall! We have to use plain old wood with a galvanized metal shield under it. I don't know if the new PT is allowed.

The shelves are taking shape! :thumbs:

One concern though: With PT's propensity for bowing, twisting, and warping I think I would have used doubled 2X4s for uprights to get some grain opposition to resist bending. Or some metal "basement jack" pipes.

What are you planning to use for decking?

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big mike

With the Federal Governments "protecting us from danger" and banning copper chromated arsenate they left us with alkaline copper quaternary which likes to eat stuff......mainly steel and aluminum.

Fasteners should be triple zinc plated,hot dipped galvanized or stainless steel.....inside or outside use.

The reason we have so much trouble with pressure treated is because the tree is cut down,machined into lumber and the kiln dried then it is loaded into a pressure vessel which is filled with treatment.The vessel is then pressurized and fills the wood fibers full of liquid again,then it is bundled and shipped to lumberyards.....or Lowes :thumbs:

If you want good results with pressure treated try and find kiln-dried-after-treatment and you wont have near the problems.

That being said,I doubt you'll loose your shelf from corrosion from the PT lumber.

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HorseFixer

Thanks Butch Ill ck into the Maize Nails hafta look them up online! :thumbs:

Thanks Duff! :whistle:

Jim ~ we are okay here with the PT lumber, a matter of fact they require it above a foundation as a sill plate. The decking will be 3/4" OSB on the platform & 1/2" on the shelf! All this was figured by a master carpenter builder frien of mine Big Mike knows him also, ( TIM EN****) Big Mike used to work for the Oldest lumber Yard in Niles no doubt he knows his chit on lumber. :whistle:

More later.... In what seems to be a never ending saga.... <_< Be glad when the damn thing is done I'm getting burned out! :dunno:

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linen beige

Jim ~ we are okay here with the PT lumber, a matter of fact they require it above a foundation as a sill plate.

They still allow it for sills here too Duke. Those are not considered interior walls. But a framed wall inside the perimeter concrete wall of a basement IS.

Maze nails should be available at Lowes.

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HorseFixer

One concern though: With PT's propensity for bowing, twisting, and warping I think I would have used doubled 2X4s for uprights to get some grain opposition to resist bending. Or some metal "basement jack" pipes.

What are you planning to use for decking?

Jim ~ I asked my Bud The Contractor about 2X4's -VS- a single treated 4X4 and he said a singular piece of lumber of same dimension is way stronger. Twisting is also not a factor due to its small length. I dont understand what you mean by grain oposition the grain in a 2X4 run one way I dont care if you flip it end for end the grain still runs lengthways. As far Jackposts In this application way way to exspensive for this application The 4X4's are way overkill as it is for about 20% of the price besides that they look much nicer and matches the structure. :thumbs:

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linen beige

The solid 4x4 is probably stronger than 2 2x4s laminated together in terms of compressive strength, but NOT in terms of resistance to warpage, bending, twisting IF the end grain "arch" of the 2x4s is oriented so that those "arches" oppose one another. The solid 4x4 is most prone to bending if one side is exposed to more moisture and/or slower drying than the other. That's why the outer edges of deck boards always seem to warp, or cup upward and cause them to hold water, regardless of whether they are installed arch up or arch down. When it rains they get wet and the wood swells. Then after the rain gravity and sunshine dry the top side more quickly than the bottom. The bottom stays swelled but the top shrinks and causes the wood to cup. If allowed to fully dry they will return to flat. Cycles of exposure to cold, damp air and hot, dry air as in a garage that is heated only for a few hours and then allowed to cool off for a few hours when you're not using it can also cause this if the dryer heated air can get to one side of the post more easily.

The doubled 2x4s would be more than strong enough for your application and would add the resistance to bending.

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big mike

I always figgered it was Randy that knew his S&*# and Tim was FULL of it :thumbs:

Either way if those guys helped you pour the foundation and floor you can play pool on it!

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Butch

I was at Lowes the other day and they only had 8p but I did pick up a box to have on hand. Our Lowes has never had much in the way of Maze nails. When I built my house I ordered 50lb boxes of siding nails along with the cedar siding. I had bought around 10lbs of 16p when a lumber yard use to carry them but I've gone through them. You can order through Maze themselves but I think you have to order 50lb boxes. They are probably easier to find in the midwest which is closer to the manufacturer. I do buy them when I run across them.

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perry

great job on the horse stable duke :thumbs: . you do some nice work. how about red switch-plug cover plates :whistle: .

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HorseFixer

great job on the horse stable duke :whistle: . you do some nice work. how about red switch-plug cover plates :dunno: .

Thanks Guys, Perry that is definitely an Idea may have to get the Red brush back out! :whistle: Have been busy the past few nights grinding the floor with a diamond grinder, this being done to give the floor the proper profile to except Epoxy Coat base coat and flakes that were previously shown. Will have more pics this weekend. :thumbs:

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HorseFixer

When you are going to apply an Epoxy on a concrete floor you have to have a profile on the floor. It doesn't matter if it is new concrete or not in order for the Epoxy to adhere to the floor most floor coating manufactures suggest using a shot blaster or a diamond grinder to prep the floor and get it ready for the Epoxy floor paint. The Epoxy floor paint that I am using is so tuff that you can clean it with Xylene or lacquer thinner. Its allot of work to diamond grind the floor but it will make it adhere better and the floor will be long lasting. Actually when I was finished grinding it looked pretty neat with the grind-ed aggregate that was showing. I probably could have just clear coated the floor at this point with a urethane but the fleck patter that I have chosen looks allot better I think.

I set up a furnace blower to help with the residual airborne dust and used a sheet of Styrofoam board to block off the doorway and exhausted the air thru a 12" spiral foil duct to the building exterior. To not draw the garage down in a negative pressure I cracked the garage door open an inch. The grinder I used was a Milwaukee with a 24 facet diamond blade, the grinder had a modified head that hooked to a shop vac and I used Drywall bags to collect the dust. When I was finished I be I had close to 80lbs of dust I had collected in 5 large Shop Vac Drywall bags. Here are some pics.

Picture Of Blocked Off Door With Blower Exhaust 12" Duct

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1400 CFM Direct Drive Exhaust Fan Came Out Of A Furnace.

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Look At The Difference Between The Picture Below And The Picture After Look at How Much Smoother The Floor Is! This is the same area! :whistle:

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Above Pic Before Grinding! :thumbs:

Below Pic After Grinding! :whistle:

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HorseFixer

Sheeted The Platform Tonight, Will Be Applying the Epoxy finish to this first. I plan on sheeting the shelving tomorrow and then will move onto doing a major clean up getting ready for the epoxy coating on the platform and then the floor. Gonna haft crank up the heat in order to get the floor temp above 40 deg would like to be at 50 deg pretty Tiff in this cold weather! :thumbs:

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Suburban 550

Duke, by the looks of the way you constructed that platform you should be able to park your Jeep on it and not worry about it coming down. :whistle: I know who to call if I ever have to borrow any tools. :thumbs: The epoxy finish should look great on the platform and floor.

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HorseFixer

Thanks Ray :thumbs: worked on the platform yesterday and the shelving unit plan on laying down the Epoxy on the platform later this evening will have some pictures later! :whistle:

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KyBlue

Lookin good Duke!!

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HorseFixer

Well got all the shelving sheeted and installed, also installed the trim boards on the platform. After that was completed I taped off the trim boards which will be painted red and filled T-11 siding groves with caulk because of the epoxy that would be thick on the shelf. I then taped the edges with painters tape. I then installed the Epoxy-Coat and gave her a good the flec mixture.

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Nick

Duke, Looks like the stable project is coming towards the end. Always liked the look of that epoxy on garage floors but never seen it used on a shelf. Looks good.

Couple months ago think I sold what ya needed for the floor. Gas powered and air powered floor scarifiers.

th_hand006.jpg th_lift010.jpg

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wh500special

The Epoxy floor paint that I am using is so tuff that you can clean it with Xylene or lacquer thinner...

Duke,

You CAN use strong non-polar solvents like that to clean it but I wouldn't. Worst thing you're probably going to have to deal with are oil drips from your antiques. In that case use soap and water.

Many epoxies are resistant to solvents (your floor will probably be an amine cured bis-F formulation) but solvents - especially acetone and even xylene - WILL soften it over time. If you elect to use solvents for cleanup use a wipe-on, wipe-off method and don't let them soak.

If you want to get ultra sophisticated on the floor surface and tap into your retirement account a little deeper, you can thicken the epoxy with sand and trowel it on to whatever thickness you desire. It makes a surface that is a little less hard than concrete but is a whole lot tougher.

Of course, it takes more epoxy so makes it more expensive too. We had a floor covered at work by Stonhard and it was troweled on about 1/4" thick with a simple cosmetic topcoat - like the one you're using - on top of that. very durable and held up well to solvent splashes, forklift traffic, and our own spilled epoxies and polyesters. The whole benefit for us was not increasing the life of the floor but was to make things easier to clean up.

Steve

EDIT: I went back and now see that your floor chemistry is actually a cycloaliphatic epoxy :thumbs: ...but I'm still singing the same song about solvent resistance.

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HorseFixer

Duke,

You CAN use strong non-polar solvents like that to clean it but I wouldn't. Worst thing you're probably going to have to deal with are oil drips from your antiques. In that case use soap and water.

Many epoxies are resistant to solvents (your floor will probably be an amine cured bis-F formulation) but solvents - especially acetone and even xylene - WILL soften it over time. If you elect to use solvents for cleanup use a wipe-on, wipe-off method and don't let them soak.

If you want to get ultra sophisticated on the floor surface and tap into your retirement account a little deeper, you can thicken the epoxy with sand and trowel it on to whatever thickness you desire. It makes a surface that is a little less hard than concrete but is a whole lot tougher.

Of course, it takes more epoxy so makes it more expensive too. We had a floor covered at work by Stonhard and it was troweled on about 1/4" thick with a simple cosmetic topcoat - like the one you're using - on top of that. very durable and held up well to solvent splashes, forklift traffic, and our own spilled epoxies and polyesters. The whole benefit for us was not increasing the life of the floor but was to make things easier to clean up.

Steve

EDIT: I went back and now see that your floor chemistry is actually a cycloaliphatic epoxy :whistle: ...but I'm still singing the same song about solvent resistance.

Thanks Nick yep we have used Shot Blasters & Scaffiers at the Jail when repainting the dorms, Scaffiers leave the floor I think a little to rough maybe for this product however some floor epoxies & finishes that are troweled on require a lot of TEETH to allow the coating to BITE into.

Steve yeah I have no intentions even tho the product I am using is Cycloaliphatic Epoxy to allow Xylene or Lacquer Thinner to sit on there. No doubt it would evaporate fast and not harm it but I would not chance it!! I would do like you said and use it as a wipe clean method then prolly mop it with some soapy water. :thumbs: To the rest of you this is a PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT not that Water Bourne Crap you buy at Lowe's, Home Depot, or Menard's. This stuff holds up for 20 years in traffic areas and just laughs at Salt Snow & GRIME Hot Tires or whatever. Thats Because Water Bourne Epoxy Shrinks After The Moisture Evaporates, This STuff Is 100% Epoxy And Does Not Shrink And Povides Over 5 Times The Thickness When Cured. The DUKES Horse Stable will not give it the abuse it can take so I am thinking it will last the rest of my days. Sometime I plan on doing My Shop Floor But I will do a test and see if it will stand up to WELDING CHERRIES & SPATTER :whistle: If it does work I will.

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CasualObserver

Looks great Duke, but pardon my ignorance.... How ya going to get the painters tape off? Isn't that stuff cut and scratch resistant too? :thumbs:

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Duff

Looks great Duke, but pardon my ignorance.... How ya going to get the painters tape off? Isn't that stuff cut and scratch resistant too? :thumbs:

I'm going to make a SWAG (scientific willd azz guess) here, but I'll bet he pulled the tape just after the stuff went to "tack"............ :whistle:

Duff :whistle:

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HorseFixer

Looks great Duke, but pardon my ignorance.... How ya going to get the painters tape off? Isn't that stuff cut and scratch resistant too? :thumbs:

Jason that is a good question :whistle: and I have not removed the tape yet and you will see why. The tape is thin and can be cut with a sharp exacto or stanley knife. You have to remember this stuff is tuff when it has the concrete or some other substrate for a backing, along the wood it is thin mainly at a wood seam I dont think there will be a problem. :whistle:

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HorseFixer

Last night after finishing up something just wasn't sitting right with me, :thumbs: the gray looking color just didn't seem to be right! <_< on further investigation I was right. I found out the color the company sent me was GRANITE not GRAPHITE like I asked for. To make sure I took the samples out of my truck and went in the Horse Stable for a comparison, sure enough the color was wrong.

A call to Epoxy Coat the company That I used and all was handled to my satisfaction with proper comps given, and my shipment will be at my local UPS company in the morning. :dunno: I really appreciate a company like Epoxy Coat that steps up to the plate and takes care of its customers! This has made me a believer in this company and I highly reccomend them not only for their superior products, but also their outstanding service after the sale! :D If you ever need any of their Products ask for Christine she is fantastic to deal with! :whistle:

I will do the floor tomorrow and in 3 days most likely Friday night I will redo the platform, this will not take much product to redo because it has a good coat on already. There was a couple fish eyes in the surface and this second coat will cover those nicely. :omg:

I spent today masking the floor edges and giving the floor a couple more good sweepins. I also insulated around the foundation with R-30 Insulation I put inside Contractor sized Garbage bags that I stapled shut. This and th extra heat I am pumping in there off my furnace has raised the temp from 36 deg to above 46 deg this is important because the temp has to be above 40 deg during application so the product cures properly.

Graphite the color that should have been sent, instead of Granite which is waht is what was applied. <_<

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Had a couple fish eyes the whole surface will be lightly sanded with 120 sandpaper and a new coat and flecks installed this is the beauty of this product its easy to fix a mistake and it blends in nicely.

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Insulated the perimeter with R-30 in garbage bags. :omg:

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Added some direct heat in the stable.

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Taped off the perimeter and swept the floor like for the 10th time!! :whistle: .

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The Floor Temp is above 40 deg Which is the minimum application temp if you look closely you can see the lazer dot 1/2" away from the wall in the corner X marks the spot Where the temp is taken. :lol: .

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