857 stopping drive belt

[Bach-Ed 170]

Time to probe others minds.  My 857 is hard to shift into gear without grinding.  I do throttle down to idle before trying to engage gears.  But when I depress the clutch/brake The belt from the engine continues to turn.  I'm thinking the belt should slow to a stop when I push in on the clutch, is that so?  Now for what isn't right.  I replaced the K engine with a new CH Kohler.  So there are some position differences.  Next the PO cut several inches off the front of the belt guard.  And I believe the guard also plays into the belt control, right?  So what can I do next?

[Ed Kennell 38,758]

Yes, the belt guard is designed to stop the belt when the clutch is depressed.  Sounds like you need a new belt guard.

[pfrederi 17,911]

If the new engine alignment precludes use of the original belt guard you should get one that gets as close to the engine  pulley as possible the fabricate bent wire guides to bolt ontgeh engine that will be very close to the engine pulley.  Sorry about pic it was the best I could find at the moment but should give you an idea.

[stevasaurus 22,883]

Here are a few more pictures of what like Paul did.  This set up should solve your issues.

 

 

 

[Bach-Ed 170]

THANK YOU BOTH.   The bars are what I'm missing.  I may have a set or I'll try to get a set if not.   If that doesn't do it (not that I doubt any of this information)  I'll get back to the forum.  But adding them is now on my to do list.

[stevasaurus 22,883]

Those bars are home made.  You want them in the approximate position shown and about 1/4" away from the belt.  This will funnel the slack in the belt (when you step on the clutch) toward the engine pulley and the belt will stop and so will the input pulley on the transmission.  Thus, no grinding.    Your belt guard has or had tabs that did the same thing.

[moe1965 746]

I had kind of the same issue.    I forced the shifter  and broke the high low gear in my trans.  I will never do that again.   Only good thing is I found a new gear and was successful in getting my horse back up and running just about an hour ogo.   Time to role the lawn

[pfrederi 17,911]

On 4/22/2016 at 1:36 PM, stevasaurus said:

Those bars are home made.  You want them in the approximate position shown and about 1/4" away from the belt.  This will funnel the slack in the belt (when you step on the clutch) toward the engine pulley and the belt will stop and so will the input pulley on the transmission.  Thus, no grinding.    Your belt guard has or had tabs that did the same thing.

  Actually they are/were available from WH.  310-8s used them as did other tractors.  The long lower one is 110668 (#14 in pic)and still available.  Top was 110667 (#10 in pic)  NLA. 

 

 

[Dan Stewart 8]

These bars or guides. Will they be used in addition to the belt guard? Are you running one also on the bottom of pulley?

[stevasaurus 22,883]

In @Bach-Ed case, the bars are probably there for ever, even with his guard.  At the front, he stated that he did not have the correct engine and the front of his belt guard had been chopped. 

[Bach-Ed 170]

I guess I will have to try the bars soon as we have a lot of replies and once I try it we will know.  But I have great faith in anything Steveasaurus says

[Dan Stewart 8]

 I have a similar situation. Installed another engine and belt guard was cut and reshaped for another engine.

I'm trying to come up with a runnable setup. I'm watching this post for ideas.

 

[pfrederi 17,911]

C series Belt Guards had metal tabs welded on the ends.   These tabs had a curve stamped in them and could be bent to get proper Clarence from the belt.  300 and 400 series did not have the tabs on the belt guard and used the wire guides shown above in the parts diagram.  First two pictures show a C141 8sp you can see the welded on tabs.  Second two are a 310-8 no tabs but it has the wire guides bolted to the block. 

You need a belt guide to support the belt when the clutch is disengaged.  If the belt sags too much on the lower run  it will not free up sufficiently on the engine pulley.

[Bach-Ed 170]

I tried a fast and dirty solution I screwed a bolt into one of the flange mount threaded holes on the engine.   I started the engine and now it shifts fine.  Now before people start telling me the bolt is a bad idea, I agree it is not a a permanent solution.  But as a test it is a good idea, I have already removed it.  i will bend up some loops of 1/4" bar like those shown earlier.  With confidence they will work.  Thank you every one. 

[Ed Kennell 38,758]

Gotta luv it when a plan works.      Glad you fixed it and saved a tranny.

[953 nut 55,930]

26 minutes ago, Bach-Ed said:

Now before people start telling me the bolt is a bad idea, I agree it is not a a permanent solution

         You could probably run it like that just fine, hardly even touching the belt.

[Ed Kennell 38,758]

  Or you could turn that bolt down to a smaller dia. in the belt area to get the clearance you need to clear the belt.

[Bach-Ed 170]

Not on my wood lathe, I don't (but wish I did) have a metal cutting one.

[Ed Kennell 38,758]

I don't have a lathe either, but I do some small turning in my 1/2" drill press using files and grinders.

[Dan Stewart 8]

Wow! Such good information. I get to play tomorrow. You all have made this old man happy. I first will try the bolt at the flange.

[953 nut 55,930]

Yes, that is excessive slack, also the belt brake on the idler is usually located forward of the pulley.

  

[Dan Stewart 8]

That makes since. I will have to take a look tomorrow to see how much of a job to move the tab. It's been like that since i picked it up.

[Ed Kennell 38,758]

Yeah, that belt looks too long.     The idler/ tensioner pulley should not be  hitting the top of the belt guard.   That defeats the tensioner.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,107]

Belt looks like the wrong type. It should have no notches and the sides need to be fabric covered so it can slip.

 

The notched belts with raw rubber sides provide the most traction of any belt design.

 

Garry

[Dan Stewart 8]

Thanks Garry and all I see that now. I'm not paying attention to what I'm looking at. I guess it's one of those age problems again. Mine!

I will go to NAPA and see what I can come up with. That's a 1/2"x 69" belt I'm using. I guess I could drop a whole inch size wise and get it fabric wrapped.

 

What a great group of knowledgeable folks.