Eaton 1100 oil

[Phatboy 565]

Ok i have been on Eatons web site  and screen shotted the oil requirments for this trans and hydro pump,,, it says 20W is what is needed for tranny,, i see alot of ppl using 10w-40w,,, so which os the proper oil to be used i will post pics from Eatons web site below..

[rmaynard 15,634]

Look in this chart. Find your year and model horse, and use the recommended oil weight that is listed. The Eaton 1100 is only part of the entire drive system developed by Wheel Horse/Toro. The Wheel Horse/Toro engineers have decided what to use in your model, not Eaton.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by rmaynard

[Phatboy 565]

That chart doesnt even list Onan engines in it,,  for the 1996 520H...

Edited April 12, 2016 by Phatboy

[Phatboy 565]

I have been reading on bob the oil guy and tractor forums alot of ppl are using "Hyguard low vicosity hydro oil" in there Eaton 1100,, Bob the oil guy recomends it.. And alot of ppl are saying it stops alot of the winning from the hydro, and mine does wine pretty loud,,, very strong but still wines,, and like i stated above the bottom chart and middle chart above doesnt even list Onan engines in the 520's so i dont know how accurate that info is,,, from the wheel horse manual ,,the pic on the top which is the Eaton bullitin 3-401 which wheel horse eaton standards are set by states  ," multi viscosity automotive oils are not recomended" so that coincides with what the Eaton 1100 manual states ,, so i think im gonna try the hyguard low viscosity oil.. With the napa filter when oil change is do in june...

Edited April 12, 2016 by Phatboy

[bds1984 1,444]

Keep in mind that when that service bulletin was written, oils have vastly improved in additives and overall quality since then.  Bob is the Oil Guy is a great website, too.  I think the Hygyard is a 10WT oil.  I've been running Napa 10W30 synthetic and a Wix filter on my 520, engine and transmission, for the last 6-7 months and not one single issue.  But, I think it will just come down to a matter of brand preference as our machines aren't that hard on oil.  

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

Phatboy, again 18 years and 755 hours with my 520H Anniversary 10w30 Castrol GTX since the very first change and ever since with the TORO filters, nary a problem always looked about the same drained out as what I put back in it (once I tried the NAPA/WIX filter and just my opinion/experience the hydro/hydraulics seemed "sluggish" to me so I switched the filter back to TORO and haven't worried about at the recommended 200 hr intervals), if the hydro is sealed properly there really isn't much chance of contamination and I nearly "abuse" mine pushing and pulling things it probably shouldn't but does, especially towing that sweeper in "hilly" terrain in the 80°+ heat after mowing is probably more demanding that pushing 12-16" of snow or hoisting that 2stage blower either,again just my , I'm sure Eaton knows their pumps but TORO/  knows their transaxles/hydraulics system and together they came up with the 10w30, go full synthetic if it gives you peace of mind I'm sure several others will praise the synthetic vs Dino juice,Jeff.

[rmaynard 15,634]

13 hours ago, Phatboy said:

...the bottom chart and middle chart above doesnt even list Onan engines in the 520's so i dont know how accurate that info is...

 

I don't want to appear argumentative here, but you were not asking about the engine. You asked about the transmission.

 

If you are concerned about the accuracy of the lube chart, I would refer back to your owners manual. I don't know what the serial number is on your 520-H, but the 1996 520-H operators manual #3318-502RevB has the engine oil and transmission oil recommendations on pages 21 and 31 respectively.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by rmaynard

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

You have to realize that Wheel Horse had input on the Eaton 11 hydro that they bought to work with their transaxle. Eaton only made the transmission portion. The Wheel Horse engineers must have felt that TDH would't be compatible with the transaxle. The tolerances may have been different. Better to stick with the tractor manufacturer's recommendations.

 

For example, the Bolens GT1800/2000 Dura Trac used the Eaton 11 with their two speed transaxle and called for TDH to be used in theirs. Best to stick with what has worked worked for years, unless you care to experiment.

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by shallowwatersailor

[tbarnhart 240]

I work in the Ag repair business looking at the insides of big green machines every day. Trust me, the John Deere Hygard transmission fluid listed above would be great in a Wheel Horse hydro. In a small hydro transaxle like the eaton 1100, you have several things that the oil is called to do. It needs to have a stable enough viscosity to be able to handle the flow and pressure requirements of the piston pump and motor. It also needs to lubricate the pump/motor to avoid microscopic wear on the parts and reduce the hydraulic integrity in the flow circuit leading to heat and reduced performance. Clearances in good hydraulic components are measured in the .0001s of an inch (no typo). The last and probably the easiest requirement for the fluid is to lubricate the gears and bearings in the axle itself. Nothing really scientific here, as the loads put on these parts is minimal to many other applications in the industrial world today. The JD Hygard fluid is designed to run piston pumps and motors at much higher flows and pressures than are ever seen in an Eaton 1100. It also is the only lube that is in the transmission/rear axle/differential of most of the Deere tractors from 20ish Hp to 620ish Hp. A lot of those gears and bearings are stressed a lot harder than a Wheel Horse axle. Then there are other benefits of a dedicated Hydraulic/Transmission fluid such as protection for wet clutch and brake linings, anti foaming properties, water dispersant properties, heat transfer properties, etc. etc. Interestingly, back in the old days of IH Cub Cadets, they specified IH Hy-Tran fluid in the hydro cubs. They used the same basic Sundstrand hydro that Wheel Horse used, but used the same hydraulic/transmission fluid that was used in all the IH tractors. Good stuff, although there are a lot of imitation fluids out there in the farm market. Some are better than others, but if you stick with a major supplier (Deere, Case-IH, etc.) you'll be getting a very high quality lube designed specifically for what that transaxle is doing. And, another vote for the Wix/Napa filter. As good as any other filter out there, at a reasonable price.

[Phatboy 565]

1 hour ago, rmaynard said:

 

I don't want to appear argumentative here, but you were not asking about the engine. You asked about the transmission.

 

If you are concerned about the accuracy of the lube chart, I would refer back to your owners manual. I don't know what the serial number is on your 520-H, but the 1996 520-H operators manual #3318-502RevB has the engine oil and transmission oil recommendations on pages 21 and 31 respectively.

 

 

 

 

Yes you are right ,, i was asking about tranny,, but when i looked at the chart you provided from wheel horse i was just making a observation that the onan engine was not listed on that chart for the 1996 model year also alot of advancments have been made in oil the last 20 years since my tractor was made ,,ie synthetic oil,, like mobil 1,, which alot of guys are using ,, not in the manual , but still a better choice,,... I i agree with tbarnhart on the advantages of hygard over regular oil,, and esp after it is stated in service bulliten do not use multi grade automotive oils,, as i assume it is because a combustion engine never see the kind of pressures that a hydro tranny does,, there for i doubt that oil maunufacturers took that into concideration when formulating engine oil,,,,, so ill be the first ginney pig,,, im going with hyguard ,, and on another plus note Bob the oil guy recommends it for every hydro garden tractor,,, so yea im there !!! Ill let you all know the differences once i get it changed,,,

Edited April 13, 2016 by Phatboy

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

You do realize that draining the oil and filter change you are NOT getting all of the old oil out of the system, there's approximately 2+ quarts still in the pump and hydraulics that never really comes out unless you COMPLETELY tear transaxle/hydraulics system apart and start fresh,so question how does Hygard interact with motor oil and being that tractor is 20 yrs old how will it effect seals and such being a thinner weight? Leaks? Such something to ponder...now if you are coming off a complete tear down rebuild new seals gaskets ect and starting fresh it may be a different outcome...my ,Jeff.

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Two complete changes should get you to 90%. But the other 10% could take three or more changes to completely change the fluid. What is the compatibility between the two fluids?

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

35 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

Two complete changes should get you to 90%. But the other 10% could take three or more changes to completely change the fluid. What is the compatibility between the two fluids?

I know I'm being cheap but how much would that cost 2/3/4 times changing out Hygard and filters,  when just go with synthetic and we know it mixes well with dino juice, vs cost of other related problems that might arise with Hygard incompatibility IDK, but the old saying is "If ain't broke don't fix it"...Jeff.

[Phatboy 565]

Here is the thing i have no idea what is in the trany now,,, so no matter what i put there is a risk of putting something that is not compatable with what is in there now,, might be regular oil and i add synthetic, or vice versa,, and low viscosity hyguard has a ISO GRADE of 32.. Which corolates to basically 20w as to why it has a JD20 standard on it,, and many ppl on bobs oil site and tractor forums mix it 50/50 with other oils so compatabilty isnt a issue,, and like i said no matter what being as this will be my first tranny oil change with this tractor ,,and not knowing what is in there no compatability will always be a a issue,, the filter is marked service 8/15... As he always took it to the dealer 2 times a year for service ,, i sent Original owner a email to see whats what,, waiting for a responce ,, hopefully i get one.. I know what dealer serviced it ,, in Hamilton ohio.. So i will try to get their number also..and Hyguard is $28 bucks a gallon and $3.23 a quart on amazon delivered to your door..

Edited April 14, 2016 by Phatboy

[rmaynard 15,634]

Here is where my thinking goes. Considering that probably 95% of owners use what is called for in the owners manual, you would be safer to use motor oil (synthetic or dino) than anything else. Chances are probably 99.99% that the previous owner didn't use Hygard.

[tbarnhart 240]

You guys are either overthinking it or not really thinking about it enough-Not sure which. It has been suggested that Toro/Wheel Horse specified motor oil because of their better engineering of the whole transaxle system. I don't think that is the case, as they used anything from ATF to 90wt gear lube in their unidrives without problems. Gears and bearings are pretty easy to lubricate at the load levels seen in these trannys. The unidrive doesn't really care, as long as it's oil. The hydro is a bit more important. As Phatboy showed, Eaton specifically recommends against motor oil. The question is, why did Toro spec this, and is there a good reason to stay with it, or move to something else? Will motor oil work? Sure, but is it really the best oil for the purpose. I'm guessing that Toro spec'ed motor oil because they deemed it provided adequate performance and it was something that was already in their supply chain. They didn't need to spec and source another fluid, and their service/dealer network wouldn't have to keep another item in stock. Interestingly, some current Hustler commercial Z-turns use motor oil in the hydros, but they also spec a special zinc additive to provide extreme pressure wear protection that motor oil doesn't provide. Hydro life is significantly shorter without it-the microscopic wear adds up and the hydros loose power. Toro assumes that motor oil is adequate, and it has proven to work well, but as Eaton/John Deere/Case-IH/Bob the oil Guy/etc.etc. have decided, there could be a better option. John Deere has been designing tractors with a common transmission/hydraulic oil for over 50 years, and they have never spec'ed motor oil. Motor oil simply doesn't have the additive package to excel as a hydraulic oil, especially at extreme pressures. It is designed to protect the sleeve style bearings on crankshafts and control deposits which are the by-products of combustion, among many other things. Not too many extreme pressure areas in an automotive engine except the camshaft, and longevity there is as much the product of the quality of materials and machining as it is lubrication. The latest premium transmission/hydraulic oils are masters at what they are called to do, which is protect high pressure (2000-6000 psi) piston pumps and motors, and provide lubrication and cooling to bearings and gears which see extreme pressure loading. As far as the mixing compatibility, a lot of that is overblown myth as well. The base oils are pretty much the same, so they will mix well. The additive packages get a bit more complicated, but a 90/10% mix will pretty much end up with a 90/10% blend of characteristics. If won't gel up, or leak like crazy, or foam or anything else weird. Look at any SCUT (Deere, Kubota, Mahindra, New Holland, etc.) with a HST and they will spec a premium trans/hyd. oil. As a note, John Deere sells two viscosity levels of Hygard. Standard Hygard (spec J20c) is used for most conditions above freezing, while Low-viscosity Hygard (spec J20d) is used for colder conditions. Here is GA, we rarely see low-vis, but either will work.

 

Just found this. https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/4968_fb_HyGardsTransmissionHydraulic.htm

Edited April 14, 2016 by tbarnhart
Found some more information

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

Ok I'm cheap, but why would we desecrate a  with $28/gal "green" tranny juice (yes I have their cast iron no logo suitcase weights) but as stated above it goes in SCUTS and up machines that may (or may not) work harder than any standard lawn & garden tractor therefore you already answered 1 question are we "over thinking" the issue in a lawn&garden tractor...after 18 yrs of 4 seasons abuse I apply only my experience that 10w30 conventional oil has served me exceptionally well in the WV/VA climates in my bought from new 520H and being cheap an following manufactures' recommendations has not led to a failure yet and as I stated beforehand what I drain out of the hydro looks 98% what I pour back into it after 200 hrs give or take, that being said keeping the hydro clean and cool the cheap ole engine dino oil must be ok ,ain't got to church it up if it works, but I'm not the one dropping the coin so it's a matter of choice here I know what has worked for me and it ain't broke so I don't need to fix it yet...now that daggum 523Dxi I drug home good Friday that's a whole 'nother story feels like and I'll be sure to share that later...hillbilly out.

[tbarnhart 240]

Maybe I'm overthinking it as well. The conclusion from my experience with a lot of different equipment types and brands-motor oil is fine, as evidenced by the many thousands of hours on Wheel Horse trannys, but I firmly believe that a premium trans/hyd fluid would be better. Enough of a difference to be able to notice? Maybe not, but a oil change is regular maintenance,and Hygard isn't any more expensive than a good motor oil. It would get my vote.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

That being said would/could it be better for the hydro probably but is it necessary ,and $28/gal Hygard (noted above) vs my $13/5qt Castrol = 2 changes for me (as I have 2 520's) I don't see a cost vs performance advantage to ME, most of us are on here to be informed but most importantly to save a $ through everybody else's tips & tricks and and not having to go to the dealer network (yes I still use the Onan engine oil filter and Toro trans filter) but I save the difference elsewhere and my opinions are just that, use them or ignore them, experience on the piece of equipment in question should suffice but I'm just an ole hillbilly.

[tbarnhart 240]

You have a legit issue with the price, although it's about even if you move up to the synthetic (Mobil 1) that everyone seems to recommend. I was simply trying to answer Phatboy's questions at the beginning about the viability of the Hygard fluid. The other issue that I see is the drain intervals. Toro recommends 100 hr. service intervals with motor oil, but I'm sure that the srevice intervals for a dedicated premium trans/hyd fluid would be much higher. The farm tractors often have hyd service intervals of 1500-2000 hours and that is with the contamination that can come from implements and dirty connections. In a closed Wheel Horse tranny, it could probably be a lifetime lube. At the minimum, you could go 5 years. At that interval, you're saving money. As a side, John Deere doesn't say what is in their oil, but people who have studied it says that it starts out with premium synthetic base stocks. The base oil is as good as Mobil 1 but the additive package is optimized for hydraulics and geartrains.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

54 minutes ago, tbarnhart said:

You have a legit issue with the price,  The other issue that I see is the drain intervals. Toro recommends 100 hr. service intervals with motor oil, 

From MY owners manual on MY TORO/ 

Edited April 14, 2016 by WVHillbilly520H
add pic

[tbarnhart 240]

When I stated 100 hrs, I was referring to the lube chart that was shown earlier in the thread. I don't have a hydro. My only WH is a gear drive. But, back to Phatboy's discussion, the Hygard is a good option. When comparing it to synthetic motor oil, the price is pretty much a wash, but the trans/hyd fluid is better optimized for the job. Or, you can stick with the Toro/WH recommendation and change your oil every year. Either will work, and work well.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

On 4/13/2016 at 0:39 AM, WVHillbilly520H said:

Phatboy, again 18 years and 755 hours with my 520H Anniversary 10w30 Castrol GTX since the very first change and ever since with the TORO filters, nary a problem always looked about the same drained out as what I put back in it (once I tried the NAPA/WIX filter and just my opinion/experience the hydro/hydraulics seemed "sluggish" to me so I switched the filter back to TORO and haven't worried about at the recommended 200 hr intervals), 

But I posted that earlier above before you replied to any of it and 100hrs is by Toro/WH for the engine oil, he asked about a 520H Eaton transaxle and interjected my personal experience for 18 yrs since new on that model,Jeff.

[tbarnhart 240]

The lube chart that Phatboy posted above clearly shows the service interval as 100 hrs. Its on pages 27 & 28 and show the Eaton models with transmission lube code T-4 with a spec of 10w30 or 10w40 and a service interval of 100 hrs. Your manual shows 200 hrs. or 1year. I would think that few people would put on anywhere close to 200 hrs. in a year, so its a guess as to how often to change it. For most folks, one year may only be 20-30 hrs. I don't know which is right. Possibly Toro changed it over the years. I could see a slight bit of water build up through condensation that might affect the properties of the oil, but other than that, it should last a long time. The Hygard oil will handle the condensation issue much better than motor oil, if it is an issue. As I said earlier, either will work, and work well.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

Ok not trying to be argumentative if you average mine out its 42 hrs a year...some years more some less, my 520 is used all 4 seasons hot or cold and I go 200 hrs give or take between changes and when I do the drained 10w30 conventional motor oil looks almost no different than what I'm putting back in it a shade darker at most but still honey golden brown, so what I'm getting at is that it works perfectly fine for ME and at a lower cost and no issues as of yet with the hydro from my cheap long spanned intervals,that being said for ME and all the the other cost consciousness fellas here, that the more expensive route isn't necessarily any better in that regard,but if one chooses to do so by all means go for it, I can save that $ for blades and belts and other wear items again from MY perspective if it ain't broke yet why fix it, if  it breaks and the cause is my cheap oil then I'll upgrade it,Jeff.