Wheel Horse NoName 10 Lurching

[kingnothing71us 108]

Hi gents. I noticed yesterday while blowing snow my tractor is lurching. Almost as if there's a flat spot in the belt. I checked the belt and all is fine. I was wondering if it could be due to the severe cold temps if maybe the oil is too thick and causing something not to engage in the rearend? I'm really hoping I don't have something broken in the gearbox. I dont have the time to tear it apart and fix it, or the money to pay someone to do the same. As of this writing, I have a heat source on the gearbox to warm up the oil to see if that makes a difference. I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worse. Any input is greatly appreciated.  

[Live4outdoors 151]

Lurching should definitely be in the rear end/trans.  a place to also look would possibly be the clutch slipping or out of adjustment, that would also do it, what your belt and clutch while running, could also be a stretched worn out belt.  Don't know what you have but if a hydro, I could see cold fluid maybe doing something but gear drives are just stiffer to engage and shift when really cold and thick.

[stevasaurus 22,884]

I have to ask...is this an 8 speed manual transmission??  Assuming it is a manual...the transmission is all gear driven...you will get no lurching from the trans.  Any water in the oil that would become frozen could cause the belt to slip...or hubs to slip (if bad woodruff key)...or input pulley if bad key.  See what you have when you warm it up.  Let us know.    Quite honestly, I think that if you started it and let it run for a while in an unheated garage, you may not generate enough heat in the trans to melt any ice,...much less warm up the 90 weight oil.  Does it happen in 1st gear as well as 3rd?? 

[N3PUY 1,031]

I had a problem that sounds like this.   The problem was the 4 bolts in the differential were loose.  One actually broke.  The gear on the diff was loose from the side plates and made play in the drive train.  Things had to "catch up".   Most noticeable going downhill.

 

[kingnothing71us 108]

Yes Steve, it is the 8 speed manual. It does it in hi and low and all gears. I checked the belt and clutch idler pulley and they are fine. I want to say it's also making a noise also but I'm not sure. The reason I say I'm not sure is because of the oversize tire chains, the excess hits the fenders when the wheels turn. It's really hard to pin it down not having someone to help me. I'm going to look at it again tomorrow after work. I sure hope it's something simple. 

N3PUY, where are the 4 bolts you are talking about? I notice this more while I'm trying to blow snow. It seems the smallest little thing stops the tractor. If I had help I could check the output shaft on the engine to make sure the pulley isn't slipping on it. If I had a way to move the tractor to my garage I could get alot more done. For now, I have to settle for working in my shed. 

I also found a manual for transmission rebuilding. I saw one on ebay and found one free of charge. I'll let you guys know what I find out tomorrow. Thanks for the info. 

I am going to put a kerosene heater in the shed with it and let it get nice and warm. If it doesnt act up, I know I got water in the gear oil and it's probably frozen. 

[N3PUY 1,031]

It seems the smallest little thing stops the tractor.

Well, if the tractor is "stopping" then something must be slipping!   The belt is slipping (which you would probably notice), or an axle hub is slipping.  I'ld say axle hub.  When the tractor stops and the motor continues to run get off and see if the axles are turning.  (or have someone else look)

[kingnothing71us 108]

Well, I checked everything today. The belt is turning the transmission/gearbox and once it does engage I only get power from the left wheel. I called my local outdoor power store and I'll be buying a whole nother gear box complete with axles. I feel it will be cheaper this way instead of buying another tractor or having to pay for someone to fix it and be without my tractor for a couple weeks. I rely on my Wheel Horse way too much for it to be down for a couple weeks. I'll take apart my gear box and if I can rebuild it, I will and that'll give me a back up. I'm paying $250 for the gearbox, it's local and I'll probably have it tomorrow. Now, I'll need a way to get the tractor to my garage to do the work. Damn, I need a truck. LOL. 

[N3PUY 1,031]

Is the right axle spinning in the hub???????????????????

 

Put the transmission in 1st gear .... jack up the right rear wheel .... see if you can turn the wheel by hand.   If "yes", is just the wheel turning or is the axle also turning?

Edited February 15, 2016 by N3PUY

[kingnothing71us 108]

The axle isn't turning in the hub. The hubs are tight on the axles. I dont have a jack here at my place, it's at my garage. I'm sure it's in the tranny. When it does catch there's a grinding clunking noise. I had my wife drive the tractor and I watched everything while it was waiting to catch. The drive pulley turns, along with the brake hub but the axles aren't turning until it catches, then there's only the left wheel spinning. 

[N3PUY 1,031]

So if one axle wants to turn but the other one doesn't ... it sounds like the clip came off the axle or the axle is broken.   Does the axle slide out of the transmission?

[953 nut 55,964]

On 2/14/2016 at 4:12 PM, N3PUY said:

differential

I'm not a betting man, but if I was my money would be with N3PUY, your differential is coming apart. With any luck when the weather clears up you can replace the bolts and be the proud owner of a spare tranny. 

[kingnothing71us 108]

I believe you are correct. The axle hasn't started coming out of the tranny. I just know from being around machinery and things like it through out my life, I believe I need to tear into the transmission. But, like I stated I REALLY need my tractor so down time has to be at a minimum. I'm sure I'll find the time to fix it when it gets warmer. I should have the new-to-me tranny tomorrow or wednesday. I should have it replaced before the beginning of next week. I will definitely keep you guys posted and I really appreciate all your help. 

[stevasaurus 22,884]

1st...$250 is not bad for a transmission that has been gone through and is known good with new seals.

     That said, it is fun to guess what is wrong with your old transmission.  I will say this...since you are going to tear into anyway, it doesn't really mater what we guess.  Know this...I think your transmission is going to be fixable...no problem. 

     I am not going to guess at this point...not enough information.  If everything outside is tight and working, it certainly sounds like it's your differential.  Once you get the transmission on a bench, you can try a few things to narrow things down.  Some thoughts:

 

1. If it is one of the differential bolts that came loose...you can get grinding, but you would not get the no movement until something caught.

2.  If you can not pull out the axle...it is not the "C" clip.

3.  If you pull and push on the axles, you should get about 1/8" of slack.  If you get more, but can't pull out the axle, then all 4 differential bolts have come loose.

4.  With the transmission in neutral, turn one of the axles...the other one should move in the opposite direction.  If not, you have lost the teeth on either one of the axle gears, or the spider gears, or both.  This would give you, most likely, what you are talking about.

5.  With the transmission in any gear, turn the input shaft in a counter-clockwise rotation.  Both axles should turn in the direction of the gear you have selected.  Now, while turning the input shaft, grab either of the axles and hold it from turning.  The other axle should keep turning in the same direction it was before.  Now keep turning the input shaft and grab the other axle...the same should happen.  This would mean that you have a healthy transmission...but you do not.  You are going to have something that does not fit what I said.  This is what we need to know.

 

Doing the steps that I stated above, one can determine if they have a good transmission.  You can also get a good idea what is wrong. 

 

 

[kingnothing71us 108]

Thanks alot Stevasaurus. I will try all of that once my tranny is out. I bought the transmission today. It came with brake hub, drive pulley, both hubs, and rims and tires. Tires are shot but they have tubes. I dont think it had new seals put in, more like pulled from a running tractor and put on the shelf until today. I'm okay with that. Atleast i have matching hubs now. Can anyone tell me the easiest way to get the old tranny out and new one in? I'll be working in a plastic shed with no way to lift from overhead. I do have my jack now.  

[953 nut 55,964]

You will want to jack the rear up just enough to take the weight off the rear wheels and use 4X4s or 6X6s alternately stacked under the frame to support the tractor (stack them where you will have room to reach the bolts that attach the trans to the frame). Remove the belt, brake rod and shift lever. Loosen the four bolts that attach the trans to the frame and see that it is able to move back, then remove the bolts and it should roll back away from the frame. It has been a couple of years since I did this so please forgive me if left something out. 

[kingnothing71us 108]

Thanks 953. I did jack it up and while in gear each wheel just spins freely while the other stays still

[can whlvr 993]

one tip,get a couple of studs that match the bolt pattern of the 4 bolts that hold the tranny to the frame,im pretty sure they are 3/8 coarse ,hand thread 2 of them into2 of the holes,diagonal is good,this helps to alighn the 2,then start and tighten up the 2 bolts,undo the studs and replace with the other 2 blts,you can make the studs from a couple of bolts and cut the heads off

[pfrederi 17,913]

28 minutes ago, can whlvr said:

one tip,get a couple of studs that match the bolt pattern of the 4 bolts that hold the tranny to the frame,im pretty sure they are 3/8 coarse ,hand thread 2 of them into2 of the holes,diagonal is good,this helps to alighn the 2,then start and tighten up the 2 bolts,undo the studs and replace with the other 2 blts,you can make the studs from a couple of bolts and cut the heads off

Cut the head off a 3/8" nc bolt then hacksaw a slot across the end (to use  with a screw driver) screw them in diagonally opposite holes as aligning pins. After you get the new tanny on with two bolts back out the two aligning pins with a screw driver

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,107]

Might be a good idea to back off the wheel studs a turn or two and make sure the wheels are not stuck to the hub. Helps after the assembly is rolled out.

 

I usually install two of the headless bolts before the last two bolts are removed from the transmission. That way it will stay is place until you are ready to roll it out. If you have the ability to point up the guide bolts a bit they have a better chance of entering the rear frame holes when you roll the transmission back into place. A couple of hacksaw cuts in the pointed end allow you to remove them with a slotted screwdriver. My studs are about 2-1/2" long.

 

Garry

[kingnothing71us 108]

I have the rear on my jack and the frame supported with jack stands. I'll lower this one out and install the other th same way. 

I have the rear on my jack and the frame supported with jack stands. I'll lower this one out and install the other th same way. 

[kingnothing71us 108]

should i drain the oil in the gearbox before removing the front bottom bolts or do the holes not go all the way through?

Hey 953, what do you mean by the shift lever? I have the 8 speed tranny, it has 2 levers, one for high and low and one for changing gears. 

I have another question. Would I use a larger drive pulley or a smaller drive pulley if I wanted to speed up the tractor just a tad?

[953 nut 55,964]

1 hour ago, kingnothing71us said:

I have the 8 speed tranny,

         Of course you will be removing both shifters

1 hour ago, kingnothing71us said:

smaller drive pulley if I wanted to speed up the tractor

A smaller pulley will make it go faster, but would probably cause a bit of belt slip, go with a larger engine pulley or taller tires.

[kingnothing71us 108]

I got the old tranny out and the other one in. I'll finish buttoning it up tomorrow. I didn't have to remove the shifters, I just rolled the tranny as I was lowering it and pulling it back. I put it back in the same way, I used the rear top bolts to help pull the tranny into place and lined up the front bolt holes and hand started each bolt and slowly tightened the down with a ratchet. I appreciate all the help from everyone. Thanks again. 

[stevasaurus 22,884]

WOW, that is outstanding.    If you have not checked the oil in the new one yet, make sure you do.  If it is not new, I would change it.

 

Let us know what you find when you open that other tranny up. 

[can whlvr 993]

personally I would not fool around with the pullies,they oem belt is the only one that works properly on an 8 speed,if you change pullies then you need to fool around with belts,and aftermarket belts just don't work with 8 speeds,good job on the re and remand now you can fix the original at your leisure,its nice to have a good tranny on the shelf ready to go in if anything goes wrong witht the one on the tractor,good advice from steve on yhe gear oil,its only 2 quarts to know you have good fresh oil