GT 14 axle seal replacement?

[ztnoo 2,298]

If I can successfully get my hubs removed, I'd like to get the axle seals replaced while I'm working on this area of the tractor.

I have noticed some minor seepage in the past and now is the perfect time to address the problem.

I've never done this before, so I'm starting from ground zero.

 

Three things are of concern to me: 

1. Obtaining the proper spec seal for replacement.

2. Learning the proper procedure and use of appropriate tools for seal removal.

3. Learning the proper procedure and use of appropriate tools for new seal installation.

 

First off are the seals. OEM # 6449 (described as Seal, 1 1/8 I.D.)

I've looked at Toro and see no availability there. I assume its a common, automotive type seal, but no O.D. or width is given, so I'm in the dark about that.

I want to procure the seals first, BEFORE I get ahead of myself, and maybe wish later I'd not done something stupid if a replacement isn't readily or commonly available.

Anyone know all the seal dimensions to insure the proper replacement parts?  O.D.? Width?

Also, any particular suggestions as to where to buy the right seals........preferences one over another?

 

Secondly, what is the commonly used technique to remove these with the axles still in the machine?

I assume the tranny needs to be drained......probably should change the fluid/filter anyway.

Are "dental picks" and similar sharply pointed tools used to "dig" these seals out? How difficult is it to remove them? Any particularly helpful hints and instructions for an axle seal rookie?

 

Thirdly, how are the new seals installed to insure leak proof results?

What tools and techniques are used in axle seal replacement, the reinstallation?

 

I know Aldon has done this on his GT 14, so I'm hoping he can give me some guidance and advice.

But I don't want to exclude others who have done the same procedure on other models.

If you have done this, I'd like to hear about your experience and suggestions.

I would assume the techniques and tools use are pretty much universal.

 

Hoping some "seal scholars" will jump in with their two cents.

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2016 by ztnoo

[Aldon 4,827]

I bought my seals from Napa or somewhere similar. I will see if I can locate that info.

 

RCPW shows them in stock however:

I used a set of locking needle nose to pull the old seals off. As they were toast anyway, I just wrenched them out as they are press fit into the housing buty paint etc might make it a bit more challenging and mine were bent excessive in getting them off.

 

Make sure there are no burs or sharp areas on the axle and gently slide the new seal over axle.

 

I used something with large surface area to spread the force and tapped them into place. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Aldon

[KC9KAS 4,741]

I would think a piece of PVC pipe (1 1/4" diameter) longer than the axle and cut very straight would work to "drive" the new seal into place.

Just my idea......

[ztnoo 2,298]

38 minutes ago, KC9KAS said:

I would think a piece of PVC pipe (1 1/4" diameter) longer than the axle and cut very straight would work to "drive" the new seal into place.

Just my idea......

 

Yes that's a possibility. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Still wanting to know the seal dimensions.

Aldon, if you scare up that NAPA number, that would be very helpful, as it might reveal dimensions, and lead to other possible sources.

[Aldon 4,827]

Steve, take a look at the pinned thread in this sub forum. Bearing and seal cross numbers.

 

you will see the info in the snap pic below...and perhaps other data...

[Lane Ranger 10,992]

I also use a big, heavy  steel washer in front of the PVC pipe and against the seal to set it with a tap -and not to heavy from a rubber mallet.  Make sure to feel and see if all the steel edges are free of burrs where the oil seal goes in the sidecase of the transmission.

 

[ztnoo 2,298]

Aldon,

Thanks!!!

That's HUGE HELP in pointing me in the right direction.

I'll scope that out tomorrow locally.

 

I found the thread: 

 

[ztnoo 2,298]

Thanks to Aldon's help and guidance, I finally found the rear axle seals for my GT 14.

The original WH OEM part # 6449 (described as Seal, 1 1/8 I.D.), is no longer available.

Fortunately there are modern conversion cross references which focuses on duplicating original seal dimensions.

Its my understand almost all seals (and bearings as well) are standardized in sizing and dimension so they can be used for a multitude of different applications for long periods of time.

I'm not sure when industry standards were established for common items like these, but thank goodness a standard was established, meaning modern replacement components can be utilized in most instances for mechanical and machine devices decades after the original item was manufactured. That's good for us WH folks restoring or simply trying to keep things running on tractors which may go back nearly 70 years.

 

So here's the basic info to replace a 6449 Wheel Horse oil seal:

Wheel Horse Part Number:            6449

Bore or Outside Diameter:             1.624 - Reference (1.625 = 1 5/8")

Shaft or Inside Diameter Range:    1 1/8"

Width:                                             0.256 - Reference (0.250 = 1/4")

Construction Description:               Dual Lip Spring Loaded

Seal Lip Material:                            Nitrile Rubber

Type of Product:                             Oil Seal

 

Here are a few direct replacement oil seals I located. The common auto industry conversion number for this 6449 seal is 11124.

My guess is any major auto parts chain supplier has this seal, and it may in fact be made by the same manufacturer. A common manufacturer seems to be SKF.

In a search for the seal, individual suppliers may attach their own prefix code to 11124, but it will be the same seal.

 

This is what I got from NAPA.

http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/NOS11124_0338963144?interchange=1

$8.29 EACH

 

 

 

______________________________________________________

Here's a couple of additional sources:

https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=01296558

$5.43 EACH

Type of Product:	Oil Seal - Inches
Shaft or Inside Diameter Range:	1-1/8 in
Bore or Outside Diameter:	1.624 in
Width:	0.256 in
Lip Material:	Nitrile Rubber
Construction Description:	Dual Lip, Spring Loaded Without Inner Case
Typical Application:	Engines, Axles, Transmissions, Pumps, Motors, Speed Reducers, Many Other Industrial Uses.
Continuous Temperature Range:	-40 To 250°F
Maximum Shaft Surface Speed:	2,000 FPM
Misalignment Tolerance:	Size Dependent "Refer To The 457010 Catalog"
Synonym:	Radial Lip Shaft Seal For Oil Or Grease; Barrier;
Type / Style Construction:	CRWA1
Weight Ea. (Lbs.):	0.030
Pressure Tolerance:	90 PSI @ 0 FPM
Type Series:	1-1/8 in
Catalog Feature 1:	Nitrile

_____________________________________________________

 

wheelhorsestables.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_68&product_id=69

$5.45 EACH

 

Wheel Horse Stables also carries other oil seals applicable to Wheel Horse applications:

wheelhorsestables.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=63_68

_____________________________________________________

 

I also located a helpful tip sheet for oil seal installations:

http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/1358554pdf?$PDF$

[ztnoo 2,298]

Pulled the old oil seals late yesterday.

Interesting seeing what I'm absolutely certain are the original seals.

If the new NAPA seals last 47 years like the originals did, I likely won't be around to know or available for help with a replacement installation (67 + 47 = 114). 

Fascinating industrial identifying marks:  CR (Chicago Rawhide) 11124 USA

 

Prior to doing this, I drained the tranny and computed the volume of ATF taken.

Right at 128 oz. + or - maybe two ounces. The volume spec says 4 qts. (4 qts. = 1 gallon = 128 oz.)

Generally very clean spoil, no obvious metals particles noted in the entire volume, only some random slightly blackish, sooty type materials in suspension.

Currently assembling my choice of parts for a seal installation tool.

Will post later after successful assembly.

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by ztnoo

[pfrederi 17,903]

SKF bought out Chicago Rawhide (CR) several years ago.

 

National Seal # is 471652  WH didn't make their own seals so originally it could have been from several different seal makers

Edited March 12, 2016 by pfrederi

[ztnoo 2,298]

ahhhh......a historical connection. 

Interesting.

Thanks for the info.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,104]

With the few CR/SKF part numbers we see one may not realize their part numbers are a reflection of the shaft size.

 

1/2" (.500") shaft seals are 5000 or close part numbers

3/4" (.750") shaft seals are 7500 or close part numbers

7/8" (.875") shaft seals are 8700 or close part numbers

1" (1.000") shaft seals are 10000 or close part numbers

1-1/8" (1.125") shaft seals are 11200 or close part numbers

 

When you look at their full line of seals this easily becomes apparent. Have never seen this with any other product of this magnitude.

 

Garry

[ztnoo 2,298]

Garry,

Great primer for those of us (that includes me) who were unaware of these numerical meanings.

Thank you for the info.

 

Steve

[ztnoo 2,298]

Well, I finally got my axle oil seals installed yesterday.

Thought I'd share a few pics of what I came up with for my seal installation tool.

I found that Genova 1 1/4" Schedule 40 tubing and fittings seemed to fit the needed size requirements perfectly.

I used a 6" length of tubing, a 1 1/4" to 1" hub/reducer, and a 1 1/4" cap and this combination provided the axle clearance and seal sizing needed. Nothing was glue together, just pressed fit together.

Seal was initially set with hub/reducer in place, then removed to allow minor adjustment within the axle housing by angling the pipe slightly while tapping with a rubber mallet.

This concoction worked extremely well and I'm very pleased with the results.

 

11124 seal next to a short sample section of 1 1/4" Schedule 40 pipe                                                            

   

 

seal overlayed on pipe, note pipe is marginally greater in diameter

                                                                                                                                                                         

11124 seal next to hub/reducer                                                                                                                        

   

 

seal overlayed on hub/reducer, note the hub is larger than the seal allowing the hub surface to firmly abut the axle housing when installing the seal

 

assembled PVC parts to make seal installation tool                                                                                        

   

 

woodruff key slot covered with electrical tape to prevent damaging seal as it is slid over the area

 

installed seal and installed new tranny filter with date and pertinent info for quick future reference

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2016 by ztnoo

[Aldon 4,827]

Glad you documented this so well. I need to replace the seals on my worker GT14 and this saved me chasing my old records for seal numbers:-)

[swisstrac 49]

very good article with plenty of concise description and very well presented!  congrat

[Aldon 4,827]

A couple of us have experienced the woodruff keys ceased to point they just won't come out. Ztnoo and I both havez bothe on the drivers right side for some reason. I am currently fighting one so I thought I'd add a pic. The woodruff key us to come out to safely install new axle seals. As such, the key itself needs to be planned for as they are no longer easily replaced. And when all else fails, the only way to get these out has been to cut a relief cut down the center.

[ztnoo 2,298]

I've seen that movie before.

It won no Academy Oscar in my opinion.....

It wasn't even a bad "B" flick.

Ugly, ugly, ugly experience.

[Aldon 4,827]

Definitely no walk in the park:-)

 

i had had to cut this 95 plus percent through before I was able to get it to break free. 

 

I do believe it's probably best to take the hubs off occasionally, clean everything up, wipe anti-seize liberally and prevent recurrence as opposed to repair for sure!

[Aldon 4,827]

Plan A, As these keys are no longer available, I am going to try and lap/file an older one that Ztnoo is providing me. Should see that in mail soon. Plan B, I have Fastenal trying to find one in stock inventory but for such a cheap part and small order, I am not holding my breath. Plan C, I fabbed up a key from steel bar. Tempor of steel is a minor concern. I am more concerned that the steel is cheaper alloy and will rust worse. If I end up using this one, I'll acid etch prime and plan on pulling hub annually to clean and recoat with anti-cease and replace if necessary. A true PITA that such a simple part is NLA. The one on left is original That I removed from left side. The one on right is my amateur fab work. It won't win awards for craftsmanship but it'll do.

 

[ztnoo 2,298]

Aldon,

With your recent hassle of obtaining new replacement keys (certainly a movie I have seen before  ), I reviewed the thread I initiated in late winter after finally getting my hubs off and discovering I couldn't remove the right side woodruff key.  I too was at an impasse to install new axle seals on the right side until the key could be removed without damaging the key slot or the rest of the axle.

The ultimate solution to remove the key was slotting it nearly in half lengthwise as shown in your photo, and finally collapsing the sidewalls of the key inward and away from the sides of the axle key slot.

The really difficult part, perplexing, and almost as frustrating a hassle, is finding replacements keys of the proper dimensions.

Interestingly, I returned to the Fastenal web site today and reviewed their part number for the proper key, listed as SKU 69352.

https://www.fastenal.com/products?term=woodruff+key+69352&searchMode=productSearch

The part is still shown on Fastenal's website, but I haven't checked for availability at the two Fastenal outlet in my county since my adventure late last winter. It does appear they can be ordered online, but with a "Shipping: Ships from manufacturer in 12 days" timeline. Maybe I'll check that out tomorrow......

Also curious, was the "View Shipping Locations" link under the pricing in the upper right hand page corner. When I clicked on the link the delivered result was Minneapolis, KS.

The location, sounding vaguely familiar, so, I returned to the Huyett hardware site for a look-see as to location.

Eureka! Lo & behold, Huyett is located in of all places, Minneapolis, KS

Go to their web site, https://www.huyett.com/ , and look at the address at the bottom of the page.

So, I guess I have to conclude Huyett is Fastenal's supplier for this part. Interesting and curious.

They actually list two keys of the proper dimensions, but of differing harness values, of which I have no understanding as to which is the harder.

https://www.huyett.com/Products/Power-Transmission/Machine-Keys/Woodruff-Keys/WKC-0RX?searchText=

https://www.huyett.com/Products/Power-Transmission/Machine-Keys/Woodruff-Keys/WKA-0RX?searchText=

This second link is the key (2) I ordered from them for backups during the time waiting on to Fastenal deliver.

 

So, oddly enough Fastenal (the retailer) is selling its part cheaper than they are listed by Huyett (Fastenal's wholesaler).

Of course, if Fastenal is buying in bulk quantities of say 100, 500, or 1000 keys, they are getting them discounted significantly (I would assume) which allows them to sell cheaper per unit than the wholesaler sending out smaller numbers to petty volume individual buyers who get raped with "handling fees" on top of outrageous shipping charges. If Fastenal can get them, the one I bought to replace my slotted and destroyed key, had no shipping, only Indiana sales tax.

I'm still going to continue to look around for other sources. It's my belief they are out there.

Maybe we should start a thread entitled "PITA PARTS TO SOURCE" ??? 

 

Aldon, USPS said you would get my three used keys by Tuesday, but I'm hoping they outperform in this instance, and you get them tomorrow.

Please let me know when they arrive and post the results you achieve from the parts inventory offered.

 

Regards,

Steve

Edited October 9, 2016 by ztnoo

[Aldon 4,827]

My local Fastenal has risen greatly in my opinion. They actually came through and located stock of some keys and got them to local store over the weekend. Call me on my way to work and I was able to take short detour and pick them up. So plan B gets a promotion to Plan A. Sweet!!! 

 

Steve, I'll be sending you a couple new ones soon.

[pfrederi 17,903]

Did the package show the woodruff key number??

[Aldon 4,827]

Paul,

 

The Fastenal Part# on package is 69352. (This is what I also had from Steve's previous efforts when I ordered)

 

Identified as: WDRF 'RX' 1/4 x2 3/4

 

Ctrl: slva4744

 

The problem is that when Fastenal pulled the part umber up whwn I oprdered it, they told me that only one store showed they had any and they did not know how many or if they would be able to get any from them. Evidently stores can hold for local customers and it still shows up as stock. While fastenal could still order more, their internal minimum order is 100.00. Their cost. And with such little order activity, then I would likely have had to pony up the entire order and get hit with the overhead. I guess I would have had to pay at least 150-175 and had way too many keys:-)  So I am way glad I was able to get replacements. Its these types of challenges that make me want to buy a more modern tractor on occasion.

[ztnoo 2,298]