Snowblower Electric Chute Motor

[Theroundhousernr 589]

Brian. This is not a 3 wire motor. Only two wires. In order to change directions , you must reverse polarity. I have good a grasp on simple way to wire this. But I may have changed directions due to where I mounted the switch and if I get a hydro pedal...? now I bet I confused everyone. Will explain tonight when I get home.

 

  Also, I considered a clutch or rubber hose for some slip but did not want any what so ever slipping. Hated the thought of moisture or oil getting into it and then loosing direction control of the chute. I may have a solution with current limiting to fix both travel stopping and frozen or jammed chute. I need to measure current draw of the motor under normal operations, then measure with a load, and finally stall current. Then I will be able to determine the proper current limter and the motor will not have the power to destroy anything. Fixes all wiring and switch issues

[Theroundhousernr 589]

10 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Many years ago I added a backup lamp to a C-120 8-Speed. Mounted a switch intended for a door or window in a security system to the side of the hoodstand next to the shifter in the reverse position. Then clamped the other magnetic half to the shifter. The switch has a common terminal plus normally open and normally closed terminals. This is powered by the light circuit.

A relay was added that is powered by the battery. If the lights are off the backup lamp won't come on. Weather has never been a problem but if it was my plan was to install the switch in a plastic container or plastic tubing and seal it up. The magnet would still control it.

A pair of these could be used to limit the chute travel.

 

Garry

Gary I am sure you already know this but those security switches are simple reed switches. They cannot control heavy loads but coupled to a relay and you are good go most of the time. Some times a power transistor acting as a switch must be used to limit the current to the reed switch. I have some nice sealed reed switches perfect for outdoor use. But I think current limiting will be my new directions. Simplified wiring and only two wire running to the blower itself.

8 hours ago, WNYPCRepair said:

 

 

You would need two. One at each end of travel, to cut power to that side of the circuit when it reaches the switch. Power is still available on the other side of the circuit to reverse direction

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was sent a message by another member who said he worked for TI and the switches they made for this were sealed. He can identify himself if he wishes, not my place to do so. 

Anyway, I searched for a picture of an A-4 nose gear door, since I remember using the switches there. After seeing the picture, my memory was jogged and he is correct. Those switches were inside a sealed box with a protruding arm with a roller bearing on the end.

Boy , I feel a LOT safer about air travel now!

6 hours ago, ekennell said:

I like this idea John.  Limit switches will only save the worm from hitting the end of  the gear.  A clutch will also save the system if the chute jams.

I'm also thinking an electrical clutch...low amp fuse or breaker ?

BINGO!

[WNYPCRepair 1,918]

1 hour ago, Theroundhousernr said:

Brian. This is not a 3 wire motor. Only two wires. In order to change directions , you must reverse polarity. I have good a grasp on simple way to wire this. But I may have changed directions due to where I mounted the switch and if I get a hydro pedal...? now I bet I confused everyone. Will explain tonight when I get home.

 

  Also, I considered a clutch or rubber hose for some slip but did not want any what so ever slipping. Hated the thought of moisture or oil getting into it and then loosing direction control of the chute. I may have a solution with current limiting to fix both travel stopping and frozen or jammed chute. I need to measure current draw of the motor under normal operations, then measure with a load, and finally stall current. Then I will be able to determine the proper current limter and the motor will not have the power to destroy anything. Fixes all wiring and switch issues

 

 

Still could be be done with two switches. Won't help with a jam, as you and others pointed out. My biggest issue is the worm gear not contacting the chute well enough and slipping. 

[Theroundhousernr 589]

   Ok , I am going to let you in on secret. My grand plan was to use a joy stick to control the electric motors on my blower. Similar to what you find in a plow truck. First issue was, I keep things to a budget. A joystick to handle the current of the chute deflector and chute direction is crazy in price. Near one hundred bucks. Specially hard finding one with double pole double throw contacts. So I started looking at lower amp rating analog joysticks with single pole contacts. Great now we are talking my price range. Coulpe these with a few relays and I got a cool little snow blowing video game.

 

  BUT heres the kicker, I drilled a hole for a simple momentary contact switch on the right support for the cab , right near the control lever. This was by dumb luck, again I just did this to test things. Turns out , while moving forward with my hand on the hydro lever , my finger is right there for the chute switch. I actual found it real easy and convenient. When blowing with a hydro, You have motion control, hydraulic lift, steering and now chute rotation and deflection. You really should be an octopus. Long of the short of it , I feel if I stick with the hydro lever. The switches will stay right where they are. If I get the foot pedal , then its joystick all the way!!  I may still do the joystick just for the cool factor.

 

  Now current limiting. There is many current limiting devices. I am thinking a resetable breaker or a polyfuse which resets on its own after things calm down so to speak. But i need to take some amp readings from the blower . Once I do, I will post my findings and products I feel to use. This involves a simple inline install of said product in the wiring and simplifies the whole works. Thats why I love talking here. Helps get the wheel turning and pulls some great ideas!! thanks everyone

 

5 minutes ago, WNYPCRepair said:

 

 

Still could be be done with two switches. Won't help with a jam, as you and others pointed out. My biggest issue is the worm gear not contacting the chute well enough and slipping. 

  No need to worry about this issue Brian. Let me ask you this, how many times do you hear anyone complaining about when they turn the crank the chute won't turn? As long as your plastic guides are not worn to hard on the chute and you have things properly adjust . No issues, that I promise. I just blew through the worst storm I have seen 30+ and two huge driveways to boot and I had no slipping to speak of. You must set the lash of the worm gear and gear wheel on the blower properly and have everything clean and lubricated before you do so.

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

11 minutes ago, Theroundhousernr said:

  My grand plan was to use a joy stick to control the electric motors on my blower. Similar to what you find in a plow truck. First issue was, I keep things to a budget. A joystick to handle the current of the chute deflector and chute direction is crazy in price. Near one hundred bucks. Specially hard finding one with double pole double throw contacts. So I started looking at lower amp rating analog joysticks with single pole contacts. Great now we are talking my price range. Coulpe these with a few relays and I got a cool little snow blowing video game.

 

Not cheap but less than you mentioned. It can handle the amperage of large linear actuators. I have one and it is great.

http://www.johnnyproducts.com/JP_Parts_HTMs/Joystick-Hardware.htm

 

 

Edited January 26, 2016 by shallowwatersailor

[Theroundhousernr 589]

5 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

Not cheap but less than you mentioned. I have one and it is great.

http://www.johnnyproducts.com/JP_Parts_HTMs/Joystick-Hardware.htm

 

  Here ya go John. The same darn joystick. That stick is made up of four limit switches in a fixture with a spring loaded lever. Nothing wrong with it but crazy priced by johnnybucket for what it is!

Here is a similar stick on amazon for $15 dollars. I know I found that same joystick for the same cost but cannot right now. http://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Momentary-Fixing-Thread-Joystick/dp/B009IMS44K/ref=sr_1_cc_8?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1453850500&sr=1-8-catcorr&keywords=momentary+joystick

[WNYPCRepair 1,918]

18 minutes ago, Theroundhousernr said:

   Ok , I am going to let you in on secret. My grand plan was to use a joy stick to control the electric motors on my blower. Similar to what you find in a plow truck. First issue was, I keep things to a budget. A joystick to handle the current of the chute deflector and chute direction is crazy in price. Near one hundred bucks. Specially hard finding one with double pole double throw contacts. So I started looking at lower amp rating analog joysticks with single pole contacts. Great now we are talking my price range. Coulpe these with a few relays and I got a cool little snow blowing video game.

 

  BUT heres the kicker, I drilled a hole for a simple momentary contact switch on the right support for the cab , right near the control lever. This was by dumb luck, again I just did this to test things. Turns out , while moving forward with my hand on the hydro lever , my finger is right there for the chute switch. I actual found it real easy and convenient. When blowing with a hydro, You have motion control, hydraulic lift, steering and now chute rotation and deflection. You really should be an octopus. Long of the short of it , I feel if I stick with the hydro lever. The switches will stay right where they are. If I get the foot pedal , then its joystick all the way!!  I may still do the joystick just for the cool factor.

 

  Now current limiting. There is many current limiting devices. I am thinking a resetable breaker or a polyfuse which resets on its own after things calm down so to speak. But i need to take some amp readings from the blower . Once I do, I will post my findings and products I feel to use. This involves a simple inline install of said product in the wiring and simplifies the whole works. Thats why I love talking here. Helps get the wheel turning and pulls some great ideas!! thanks everyone

 

  No need to worry about this issue Brian. Let me ask you this, how many times do you hear anyone complaining about when they turn the crank the chute won't turn? As long as your plastic guides are not worn to hard on the chute and you have things properly adjust . No issues, that I promise. I just blew through the worst storm I have seen 30+ and two huge driveways to boot and I had no slipping to speak of. You must set the lash of the worm gear and gear wheel on the blower properly and have everything clean and lubricated before you do so.

 

 

 

There is a lot of slop on mine where the chute mounts to the blower. The plastic guides don't look worn, I was going to just replace them until I saw the price

 

[Theroundhousernr 589]

Just now, WNYPCRepair said:

 

 

 

There is a lot of slop on mine where the chute mounts to the blower. The plastic guides don't look worn, I was going to just replace them until I saw the price

 

There gold plated, dont you know.... . Mine has some slop too but I set the lash with all the play pushed away from the gear. So now that everything is adjusted the play is little to none. Could be as simple as slotting the holes a bit where the guides mount to get some adjustment. . Should be just fine.

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

19 minutes ago, Theroundhousernr said:

 

  Here ya go John. The same darn joystick. That stick is made up of four limit switches in a fixture with a spring loaded lever. Nothing wrong with it but crazy priced by johnnybucket for what it is!

Here is a similar stick on amazon for $15 dollars. I know I found that same joystick for the same cost but cannot right now. http://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Momentary-Fixing-Thread-Joystick/dp/B009IMS44K/ref=sr_1_cc_8?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1453850500&sr=1-8-catcorr&keywords=momentary+joystick

The problem is it is not dual rated for AC/DC current. It is rated for 240V 5A. The contacts have different requirements for DC current. It may still work.

[Theroundhousernr 589]

30 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

The problem is it is not dual rated for AC/DC current. It is rated for 240V 5A. The contacts have different requirements for DC current. It may still work.

 Sorry, I meant to say in conjunction with relays. They are needed anyway with the two wire seat motor. Fraction of the cost.. remember I'm cheap lol. But I have found that same one around the same price. I'll keep looking for it.. can't blame Johnny bucket, they got to keep the lights on...

[Theroundhousernr 589]

Found that joystick from johnny bucket. Its made by apem and is rated at 16amp @ 240v. Seems to be industrial to but no DC rating either.  http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/2V17F1100/679-1404-ND/1280470. Looking at $56 dollars from digikey. A little better.....

Edited January 27, 2016 by Theroundhousernr

[WNYPCRepair 1,918]

2 hours ago, Theroundhousernr said:

Could be as simple as slotting the holes a bit where the guides mount to get some adjustment.

 

 

That is what I was thinking of doing, as one blower has too much play to get the gear close enough.

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

I think that it may actually be this one as it has the "gate" pieces included. He does provide leads with weatherproof connectors already attached for the difference in price.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1V15F1100/679-1405-ND/1280471

[Theroundhousernr 589]

Just now, WNYPCRepair said:

 

 

That is what I was thinking of doing, as one blower has too much play to get the gear close enough.

Wow really. I can get the lash so tight you can't turn it. Thats a bummer.... Maybe you can glue some type of nylon shims on the inside of those guides. 2 out of 3 of mine are cracked where the screw goes in but still plenty usable. I forget how much those pieces are but I thought they where around 30 a piece. Someone needs make a mold of those pieces and whip up some new ones at a better price. Anyone out there efficient in plastic molding?

[AMC RULES 37,132]

Might try sending Glen a PM here...

 

 

[Theroundhousernr 589]

3 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

I think that it may actually be this one as it has the "gate" pieces included. He does provide leads with weatherproof connectors already attached for the difference in price.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1V15F1100/679-1405-ND/1280471

May want to study johnny buckets picture again... That one is different unless you sent me a corupt link. None the less, just personally feel the price is crazy for what it is. Here is a picture of an arcade joystick made the exact way with limit switches for $15 but they dont give amp ratings. And the big issue is, in order to operate the seat motor you need DPDT switches in the joystick. The Apem is SPDT so you would still have to use relays which would add to the cost... So using a lower amp rated joystick with relays seems to be the best for price and being effecient for me. I will keep looking and let you know what i find.

11 minutes ago, AMC RULES said:

Might try sending Glen a PM here...

 

 

Talk about a DUH moment. lol If he would be interested in that , I wonder if there would be copyright issues.

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Digikey photo is "representative only."

[Theroundhousernr 589]

3 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

Digikey photo is "representative only."

   I see your point John , I missed the part about the inserts on johnny bucket but the price stays the same anyway on digikey......

'

[WNYPCRepair 1,918]

2 hours ago, Theroundhousernr said:

Talk about a DUH moment. lol If he would be interested in that , I wonder if there would be copyright issues.

I sent him a PM to see if he was interested. 

[WNYPCRepair 1,918]

I was looking for a diagram to add limit switches to, and found this article. Again, it won't help with jamming, but it would stop at each end, and reverse polarity. 

http://www.robotroom.com/DPDT-Bidirectional-Motor-Switch.html

[WNYPCRepair 1,918]

On January 26, 2016 at 3:12 PM, ekennell said:

Makes sense, or cents, or scents to me Brian. But then Me being a Hydro Power guy, I have to convert all my electronic stuff to a fluid to be able to grasp it.

Volts = pressure

Amps = flow

Ohms = friction

closed switch = open valve   

open switch = closed valve

Clear as water....

[Theroundhousernr 589]

So I have drawn a diagram with a few diodes involved with limit switches for the guys out there that choose to do so. With the addition of a few diodes , it saves a lot of wiring. If your like me and choose to use a plug so you can remove the blower , it will cut down on how many pins to a plug you will need. But biggest thing will be not running so many wires back to your switch.  Infact you will only need two wires running from chute motor back to the switch from the blower.

 

  For those that dont know, a diode only lets electrons flow one way. Reverse the polarity and it blocks the flow of electrons through it. (  very basic description, but none the less ) A diode must be selected to the appropriate amp rating for the motor "ie. to small amp rating and puff !!!

 

  This circuit takes advantage of limit switches with Normally Open and Normally Closed contacts. In the first diagram. The blower chute is far right with a tab on the chute closing the right limit switch. Also someone has fell asleep with there fingers on the switch and has left power going to the motor ! Since the limit switch has now closed the Normally Open contact and lifted the Normally Closed contact on the right switch, It has now routed power through the diode. But since the diode is installed reverse of the polarity. It blocks the flow of current through and the motor stops regaurdless.

 

  Now, the someone has awoken and decides to go back to blowing and needs the chute to the left. In the second diagram,  operator reverses polarity through the switch. Nothing has changed in the diagram but the polarity through the same two wires. Now the diode allows current to flow and the motor moves to the left.

 

  I chose not to draw a diagram for when the blower is not depressing a limit switch. Fairly simple to understand. When the switch is not depressed , current just flows through the Normally Closed contacts of the limit switch and nothing is interupted.

 

  Hope this makes sence and feel free to ask any questions. And for those electronic wizards like our resident squirrel, feel free to weigh in.

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by Theroundhousernr

[Theroundhousernr 589]

If I choose to add some type of saftey device, which I may or may not yet. I have tested short bursts at the far chute limits and it seems to hold up well, not sure if I would want it accidentally being pushed for long periods of time but....

 

  This last diagram shows a high amp reading from the motor ,which is a result from a heavy load or stall of the motor. For example, chute is at its rotational limits or jam in the chute. The current limit device could be a fuse, polysfuse ( Auto Reset type of fuse) or breaker choosen with an amp trip somewhere above normal operation. This way if a current reading is detected above normal operation , device trips and shuts off current from going to the motor. Also , I would most likely add in a bypass switch so if you feel everything is safe and it was just an oops. You could continue working without waiting for polyfuse to reset or replacing a fuse. This saves the need of having to mount limit switches, extra wires and added electrical joints to something that you hope to not let you down in a storm.

  I still have not had a chance to take amp readings from the seat motor. Hopefully soon.

[Digger 66 3,485]

On 1/25/2016 at 11:52 PM, Theroundhousernr said:

 

 

 

 

https://youtu.be/3Zsim1ihip0

 

 

https://youtu.be/9sUim0PQlOo

 

Nicely done ! 

[Theroundhousernr 589]

 Ok so I took an amp reading last night of the motor under normal load. The max amp reading came out to be 2.339 amps, but that was starting current. It settled in around 2.08 amps. I am sorry,  I didnt have any helpers with me to put a drag on the chute. I am confident since the gearing is so low on this motor , it should take a good bit of force/drag to really put a load on it, to make the amps jumps significantly. So I am thinking of ordering the 2.7 A , 16 VDC Polyfuse, or the 2.5 A verision. Should make for a trip sensitive enough to keep the gears, and chute drive safe. I will test these before making my recommendation. Also remember the amp draw on your motor could vary some.

 

  So I guess its time to order some parts including joystick and chute defelctor actuator. Seems to be coming together nicely!