Snowblower Electric Chute Motor

[Theroundhousernr 589]

 

    So its been awhile for me to make a formal post. Been taking on more at work and just been so busy but i still check in from time to time. I have been thinking of ways to add electric chute rotation to the blower. Seen it all been done before but not much on the tall chute blowers. So I hope this isnt boring. 

  I wanted three things,

  -relability( no need to make a simple design turn into a failure , specially when your out blowing snow)

  -symplicity

  -little to no modification to the blower itself

 

  Came across a surplus supply of gmc electric seat motors on Amazon for $15.00. Read reviews. Motor is reversable, can be taken apart to switch output shaft orientation (also meant machining of the shaft possible), and had a nice 1/4" hole mounting fixture. Figured if it lifts someones fat rump then it should be up to the task of spinning my chute. So i ordered it....

 

  Again I didnt want to damage any orignal parts so I went to my local fabricator shop and picked up some 3/8 cold rolled steel. Which is the same thing wheel horse used for the shaft the worm is on. So now I must adapt this wierd non standard worm thread shaft from the seat motor to the 3/8 rod used for the worm drive on the blower. This envovled a good friend of mine and his lathe. Took a 3" by 1" round stock stainless and but it in his 3 jaw chuck. First drilled the 3/8 hole all the way threw. Left the piece in the chuck to hold center and drilled, I believe it was, 29/64 for the seat motor shaft to a depth of 1.5 inches. So now we have an adapter with the 3/8 hole 1.5 inch depth and a 29/64 hole with a 1.5 inch depth. Added a set screw for either side and that piece was done.

 

 Now we put the seat motor shaft in the chuck and turned it to fit the hole with a slip fit of about .002 of an inch plus or minus. The joke was , we are not building a rocket ship to get to the moon but if any garden tractor could , it would be a wheel horse.... Wah WAh

 

 Took my new fancy parts home with me to finish the rest. After careful measuring I cut the 3/8 stock down to size and drilled a hole for the role pin that holds the worm to the shaft. Next I cut my seat motor shaft down to size and ground a flat on the shaft for a firm place for the set screw to grab. Remember this is a threaded shaft not smooth. Shown in pictures below. My seat motor required disasemble anyway to swap the shaft to come out the other side for chute clearance. The motor is offset from the gearbox and it caused the motor to hit the chute when chute was rotated hard right. I assembled everything and all was left was to drill a 1/4" hole for mounting. Measured where I wanted the hole , drilled hole and used 1/4" threaded rod for a fasener and a few bolts.. 

 

  I think it turned out great. I added a rubber cover out of rubber roofing to protect it from the weather. It has plenty of speed lock to lock on the blower. Should be reliable. Best part of all is it can be returned to a crank in minutes incase of failure and nothing original was damage to the blower itself but a 1/4" hole! Something yet to be determined are some kind of stops so to not tear up anything incase the motor gets stuck in drive or someone else uses it and doesnt realize. I will add pictures of the setup and video if I can to show speed of the chute. Also if anyway wants measurements, amp draw of motor, or any question feel free to ask. Might even make some more adapters if anyone is interested. Next post I will show will be how i wired everything. Hope you enjoy!

https://youtu.be/3Zsim1ihip0

 

 

https://youtu.be/9sUim0PQlOo

[WNYPCRepair 1,899]

That is some excellent work. I just ordered the motor, I hope mine turns out half as nice as yours.


For stops, figure out a mount for a couple of these, and a couple of small tabs on the chute. 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by WNYPCRepair

[Ed Kennell 37,988]

Nice....got a link to the motor Brian ?

[Theroundhousernr 589]

Seat Motor Link   Here ya go. The exact one Ed.

[WNYPCRepair 1,899]

Yep, same one I ordered

[Theroundhousernr 589]

18 hours ago, WNYPCRepair said:

 

 

18 hours ago, WNYPCRepair said:

That is some excellent work. I just ordered the motor, I hope mine turns out half as nice as yours.


For stops, figure out a mount for a couple of these, and a couple of small tabs on the chute. 

 

 

 

  I considered some type of limit switch like that but wonder how well it would survive the conditions of snow and water. Then I got to thinking about reed switches transistors and relays. I can find nice weather proof reed switches but havent found many weather proof limit swithces. This all goes into play with how I intend to wire this thing and control it which I will get into next. I will also be mounting a electric linear actuator for chute deflector. The current wiring is only temporary to test it out and it worked wonderfull. Except , I was in a rush and forgot to put loctite on the set screws.... Oh well. All that took was an allen wrench.

[WNYPCRepair 1,899]

1 minute ago, Theroundhousernr said:

 

 

  I considered some type of limit switch like that but wonder how well it would survive the conditions of snow and water. Then I got to thinking about reed switches transistors and relays. I can find nice weather proof reed switches but havent found many weather proof limit swithces. This all goes into play with how I intend to wire this thing and control it which I will get into next. I will also be mounting a electric linear actuator for chute deflector. The current wiring is only temporary to test it out and it worked wonderfull. Except , I was in a rush and forgot to put loctite on the set screws.... Oh well. All that took was an allen wrench.

I was just sitting here earlier trying to figure out how to weatherproof them. 

On the other hand, that exact switch is located in the wheel well of aircraft to tell them whether the gear is up or down, and while the gear is down, they are exposed to weather, at 500 knots, so maybe we are overthinking it. 

In the meantime, I'll see if I can find a weatherproof switch

 

[WNYPCRepair 1,899]

Wow, this is about all I could find under $100. And they only have 1 in stock

http://www.amazon.com/Bridgeport-BP-11630131-Weatherproof-Switch/dp/B00KIUXEPU

They aren't cheap (same as Amazon), but I found more

https://www.professionalgearco.com/shop/bridgeport-bp-11630131-prcn-weatherproof-micro-switch/

Edited January 26, 2016 by WNYPCRepair

[Theroundhousernr 589]

Did you check mouser or digikey? There electronic surplus supply houses. Might check them tonight. Those from amazon seem ok but have no reviews and only one instock which most likely means there is nothing there. Im glad someone else has the bug besides me

1 hour ago, WNYPCRepair said:

I was just sitting here earlier trying to figure out how to weatherproof them. 

On the other hand, that exact switch is located in the wheel well of aircraft to tell them whether the gear is up or down, and while the gear is down, they are exposed to weather, at 500 knots, so maybe we are overthinking it. 

In the meantime, I'll see if I can find a weatherproof switch

 

At least they get air blown dry from time to time

Edited January 26, 2016 by Theroundhousernr

[AMC RULES 37,125]

Works really nice too...     

once you get it all  put it all together in a kit, sign me up. 

[Theroundhousernr 589]

7 minutes ago, AMC RULES said:

Works really nice too...     

once you get it all  put it all together in a kit, sign me up. 

In my video, you can hear a clicking noise. That was some nicks in the worm gear. Once I filed those down and adjusted the lash between the gear and the blower chute. The noise was gone. Also in the video, I was using a model train transformer to run the motor in a pinch. Not enough amps from the small transformer. I will take a video of how it is now hooked up to the battery. Its not really anymore faster. Just more responsive, but big improvement non the less..

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,026]

Many years ago I added a backup lamp to a C-120 8-Speed. Mounted a switch intended for a door or window in a security system to the side of the hoodstand next to the shifter in the reverse position. Then clamped the other magnetic half to the shifter. The switch has a common terminal plus normally open and normally closed terminals. This is powered by the light circuit.

A relay was added that is powered by the battery. If the lights are off the backup lamp won't come on. Weather has never been a problem but if it was my plan was to install the switch in a plastic container or plastic tubing and seal it up. The magnet would still control it.

A pair of these could be used to limit the chute travel.

 

Garry

[WNYPCRepair 1,899]

1 hour ago, gwest_ca said:

Many years ago I added a backup lamp to a C-120 8-Speed. Mounted a switch intended for a door or window in a security system to the side of the hoodstand next to the shifter in the reverse position. Then clamped the other magnetic half to the shifter. The switch has a common terminal plus normally open and normally closed terminals. This is powered by the light circuit.

A relay was added that is powered by the battery. If the lights are off the backup lamp won't come on. Weather has never been a problem but if it was my plan was to install the switch in a plastic container or plastic tubing and seal it up. The magnet would still control it.

A pair of these could be used to limit the chute travel.

 

Garry

 

 

That's a great idea, Garry!

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

I could be wrong but if you use the limit switch, how do you reverse polarity to have it run in the opposite direction once it shuts off? Would it be run through two relays, one for each direction?

Edited January 26, 2016 by shallowwatersailor

[WNYPCRepair 1,899]

36 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

I could be wrong but if you use the limit switch, how do you reverse polarity to have it run in the opposite direction once it shuts off? Would it be run through two relays, one for each direction?

 

 

You would need two. One at each end of travel, to cut power to that side of the circuit when it reaches the switch. Power is still available on the other side of the circuit to reverse direction

 

 

 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, WNYPCRepair said:

I was just sitting here earlier trying to figure out how to weatherproof them. 

On the other hand, that exact switch is located in the wheel well of aircraft to tell them whether the gear is up or down, and while the gear is down, they are exposed to weather, at 500 knots, so maybe we are overthinking it. 

In the meantime, I'll see if I can find a weatherproof switch

 

I was sent a message by another member who said he worked for TI and the switches they made for this were sealed. He can identify himself if he wishes, not my place to do so. 

Anyway, I searched for a picture of an A-4 nose gear door, since I remember using the switches there. After seeing the picture, my memory was jogged and he is correct. Those switches were inside a sealed box with a protruding arm with a roller bearing on the end.

Edited January 26, 2016 by WNYPCRepair

[Pullstart 62,734]

My wood splitter was once a scissor lift.  The guy who built it used one of the position switches from the lift to activate a "home" position for the auto return on the ram.  It's a foot pedal operated split, you lift your foot and it returns to the switch.  Maybe an equipment company would have that same type of switch for a scissor lift?

[Pullstart 62,734]

duplicate post oops

Edited January 26, 2016 by pullstart

[Pullstart 62,734]

and again... refreshed my browser!

Edited January 26, 2016 by pullstart

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

So using limit switches means four wires for the control circuit with the relays as well as two wires for the the load circuit. It might be easier to do a mechanical clutch. It could be as simple as using a piece of rubber hose and clamps to allow slippage.

Edited January 26, 2016 by shallowwatersailor

[WHX?? 48,740]

I was thinking some kind of dial switch ala the old tv antenna rotator type? Just turn the dial to where you want it and it stops automatically. Just an Idea & food for thought....time to brouse the electronic supply houses for the right switch???

[Ed Kennell 37,988]

20 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

So using limit switches means four wires for the control circuit with the relays as well as two wires for the the load circuit. It might be easier to do a mechanical clutch. It could be as simple as using a piece of rubber hose and clamps to allow slippage.

I like this idea John.  Limit switches will only save the worm from hitting the end of  the gear.  A clutch will also save the system if the chute jams.

I'm also thinking an electrical clutch...low amp fuse or breaker ?

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

1 minute ago, ekennell said:

I like this idea John.  Limit switches will only save the worm from hitting the end of  the gear.  A clutch will also save the system if the chute jams.

I'm also thinking an electrical clutch...low amp fuse or breaker ?

I have the makings for the chute rotator. I just was trying to "engineer" it so that I could go back to the manual crank if the motor failed. It means duplicating the gear, shaft and bracket.

 

A simpler method to add a clutch would be a cordless drill mounted in the cab that is equipped with a clutch driving the rod. Not the WOW factor but do-able.

[doc724 925]

I do like the idea of using a surplus seat motor.  Last year I toyed around with the idea of using a small geared down DC motor and even measured the torque to turn the chute and the typical RPM needed to mimic how fast you could turn it by hand.  (of course, I either did not save the calculations or I cannot find them)  All of these motors, were, however more that $15.  My conclusion was that if you kept the rotational speed about equal to a manual turn rotational speed, then limit switches were not needed.  Now, if you were using something that would spin the chute really fast and you would not be able to react in time to prevent damage, then limit switches (or clutches) would be desirable.

 

BTW, does anyone know what car seat motors use to prevent damage at end of travel?

[WNYPCRepair 1,899]

2 hours ago, shallowwatersailor said:

So using limit switches means four wires for the control circuit with the relays as well as two wires for the the load circuit. It might be easier to do a mechanical clutch. It could be as simple as using a piece of rubber hose and clamps to allow slippage.

 

 

No need for relays. Motor has a forward and back circuit, ground and positive for each. You supply power to the forward circuit, the seat moves forward, Apply power to the reverse circuit, the seat moves backward. For my example, substitute left and right for forward and back. 

You hit the control switch to move left, the chute rotates left until it hits the left side limit switch (NC), which kills power (opens the switch) to the left side circuit. Since the circuit is now open, the chute will go no farther left. 

 

The right side switch is still in the NC position, so when you use the control switch to move right, the chute will turn right until it hits the right limit switch, which then opens and kills power to the right side circuit.

 

As soon as you started moving right, the left side switch returns to the NC position, so you can reverse at any point, until the chute opens the NC switch and stops further travel. If both limit switches are closed (chute is somewhere in the middle), you can use the control switch to move in either direction.

 

If that isn't clear, I could do a diagram. I am not an artist, but I should be able to get the point across.

[Ed Kennell 37,988]

Makes sense, or cents, or scents to me Brian. But then Me being a Hydro Power guy, I have to convert all my electronic stuff to a fluid to be able to grasp it.

Volts = pressure

Amps = flow

Ohms = friction

closed switch = open valve   

open switch = closed valve

Clear as water....

Edited January 26, 2016 by ekennell