SO, YOU WANT TO SAVE THAT WH 3 PIECE TRANNY

[stevasaurus 23,034]

You are not going to believe this...but while pounding on that 4th transmission, I had an oil drain pan with diesel fuel in it on the bench...knocked it off and about 1/2 gallon went on the floor and in that wagon that had the transmissions in it.  Luckily, I had some Rock & Rye in the cup, and I grabbed that and sat back and looked at the mess.  There is a drain right near where the fuel spilled...the drain goes out to the back of the garage...kind of where the mice have a nest.  Bye mice.  So there is some good that happens...you just have to find it.  The fuel is going down the drain and I can clean it all up this spring.  I actually like the smell of diesel when it is mixed with 90 wt.  It is a cocktail without a name. 

      Tomorrow, looking to hone the bronze bearings, fit the axles and put together one of the differentials for the RJ transmissions.  Still have some ideas as far as fixing those little nubies that are broke in the other cases. 

     Martin, if you are enjoying this thread...Thanks...you are one of the best. 

     Mike, you will absolutely love those roll pin punches.  These are keepers for a long time...not just using and abusing.    Worth every penny.

 

[squonk 42,260]

If you got any diesel into the R & R could you tell ? 

[stevasaurus 23,034]

My 1st instinct was to grab rags...after opening up 3 transmissions, I had none...they were gone.  After a sip of Rock & Rye, I realized that when I was done with all of these transmissions, I would probably throw some diesel on the floor to clean it up anyway.  Zee-Wal-A...things happen for a reason.    Another sip of Rock & Rye and I took apart the differential.  Problem solved.  Keep on truckin'    If there is a bad side, I need to buy another gallon of diesel. 

[Racinbob 11,634]

 Steve, Nancy and I are sitting here enjoying the dual races and I just read that to her. Tooooooooo funny!!!! This thread has got it all. You talked me in to it. I'm gonna pour me some Rock & Rye before the second race starts. 

[WHX?? 50,447]

11 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

I need to buy another gallon of diesel

And another gallon of R & R......

 

Had to driil the roll pin hole out to 3/16, Steve...1/8 was loose from running the ill fitting cotter pin.

 

Guy's gotta wonder how those gears got that stripped, woulda thunk  one woulda shut her down before they got that bad.

 

By the way has somebody got a link on where to buy for those punches?

[Racinbob 11,634]

Here ya go Jim.

 

http://www.graceusatools.com/item-details.php?item_id=47&category_id=1

 

 

[WHX?? 50,447]

Thanks Bob... by the way got an update on that idler pully for these transmissions

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/57982-dennys-free-suburban-work/?page=4

 

[stevasaurus 23,034]

I was able to get some stuff done today...temps were close to 60.  The 1st thing to do is grind and hone the bronze axle bearings to fit the axles.  For some reason, they increase in size when they are tapped into their positions.  You want to do this before you put the differential together...the differential is heavy and hard to handle for this fine work...and it is fine work.  It takes grinding a little and checking the fit...over and over again.  You can always take out a little more...you can not put back any material you have grind out.  I used a 7/8" bit for the most part, and then a hone tool to smooth things out after the axle fit OK.    The bits are from ACE Hardware.

 

The next thing was to cut with a Saws All the bronze bearings that carry the differential housing to length.  You need to cut off about 1/4" + to fit these in the differential housing.  I make a mark at the 1 1/2" - mark and tap it into the housing and then run it with a Saws-All...tap out the 1/4" piece that is left and go to the next one.

 

Then I could go about putting the differential back together.  The one I am building for Lane (RJ transmission) has the 11 toothed spider gears that I got from Racinfool40 (Mike)  These are from a 2 piece transmission and this is discussed earlier in this thread. 

 

The axle gears in place with their roll pins.

 

  Then the spider gears...and they alternate around the differential.  I use a smaller roll pin punch to guide the roll pin into the second pinion shaft as I tap then in.

 

So then I started the E-Tank again to take the rust out of the 4th transmission case to free up the shift rails.  We have hydrogen bubbles and a Rock & Rye...life is good. 

 

 

[AMC RULES 37,144]

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=grace+roll+pin+punch+set

[squonk 42,260]

1 hour ago, AMC RULES said:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=grace+roll+pin+punch+set

I bought both the long and shorty set! 

[Lane Ranger 11,096]

I bought a set of the short Grace roll punches yesterday Steve and Mike !    I wanted to see how they preformed in optimal conditions in Steve's garage and basement before buying!  

 

 I am convinced they work great after the load of roll punches Steve has removed and reset!   I did not realize they were made for gunsmithing application until  purchasing the set yesterday! 

 

I also see in the 10th and 11th picture down in your latest posting that you also use the roll pin punch to line up the roll pin placement for two of the spider gears (and the other two  I assume) when reinstalling the roll pin to hold them in place in the differential housing.   

 

Craig:  I wish you had posted that Amazon.com link on Grace roll pin punches yesterday!    I would have saved $5 bucks  -Ha !

 

 

Steve:   I just can't get over the details of this rebuild thread you are providing for all to see and use on Red Square!     

Edited February 20, 2016 by Lane Ranger

[squonk 42,260]

8 hours ago, Lane Ranger said:

I bought a set of the short Grace roll punches yesterday Steve and Mike !    I wanted to see how they preformed in optimal conditions in Steve's garage and basement before buying!  

 

   

 

Craig:  I wish you had posted that Amazon.com link on Grace roll pin punches yesterday!    I would have saved $5 bucks  -Ha !

 

  

I bought mine from Amazon before Craig posted the link. First time I've been ahead of the curve in weeks! 

[Lane Ranger 11,096]

Steve:   One question about the honing of the bushings in the  axle housings.   Do you  grease or oil the axles when testing the "fit"  after the axle bushing is honed or do you just test it  without lubrication for turning, etc.?   

Edited February 20, 2016 by Lane Ranger

[buckrancher 2,694]

Steve you can pickup a reasonably priced 1" reamer on e-bay for doing the axle bushings you will get a round hole with a good finish

you do need a bench or floor drill press and the end of the reamer turned down to fit the drill chuck

I have used a large vise grip on the reamer and reamed the bushings by hand starting from the plate side of the axle side plate this helps you keep the reamer perpendicular to the side plate

but a drill press is best

 

Brian

[WHX?? 50,447]

Good tip Buckrancher, I used the brake cylinder hone it but took forever. Too chicken to try the stone, feared it might leave it too rough a finnish or out of round. I polished the axles with fine grits cloth & steel wool as well.

 

The one pic there shows the axle grooved Steve, is that not a concern for you? Also what kind of shape were the stubs the differential rides on?

Edited February 20, 2016 by WHX6

[stevasaurus 23,034]

I like what Brian said about the reamer.  I have a bench press and I might even have the reamer.  I have a couple of more plates to do...I will give it a try.    I had a 1" stone that worked great, but I think I loaned it to Jake and when I went to ACE the other day...the largest they had was 7/8".   I know they look a little rough in the picture, but the hone makes them nice and smooth by the time I am done.  You really aren't taking out a lot of material here, and it only takes a couple of minutes.

   Lane, I did not oil anything until I had the fit I wanted...then, yes I oiled the bearing and axle. 

 

    Jim the carriage tubes do have some slight grooving going on. Not much I can do with it...short of cutting the tube welds and replacing the whole tube.  I am not equipped to do that.  I usually emery cloth the tube a little to get some of the ridges down and smoother, but I don't want to take out too much material and have a sloppy fit.  I kind of think that these machines are pretty much done working in the field, and they are just going to shows, pulling the kids around and doing cruise nights.  Remember, I am re-using the old gears and bearings if they are good.  I replace bad gears with better used ones.  I can replace all of the bearings with new...if need be.  Seals are new.  Pretty much, I am just giving the transmission a good cleaning (sometimes...it's first one) and putting it back together with fresh oil.  I hate to say it...but it sometimes comes down to how much money do you want to put into the transmission of a $250 machine??   As it is, if I get 2 transmissions out of these 4, we will have about $70 in each...that does not count any labor...it is a labor of love. 

[Racinbob 11,634]

Steve, do you have enough parts to do the modification with splined axles/gears like we discussed? I'm thinking that would come in handy down the road and this thread would be a good place for it.

I just found some bronze 1.5" x 1" bushings if that option is viable.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Racinbob

[Lane Ranger 11,096]

Sunshine and 60 +   degrees today in Greencastle, Indiana.  Decided to take advantage of the Spring like day.

 

Primed and painted my rear hitch (thanks to Jake Kuhn),  my steering block parts and my steering shaft with new steering wheel (one of the Cub ones from Ron Greco that has been drilled out in center and for a roll pin) .    The Cub steering wheels were splined and had to be drilled out in the center to fit the 3/4 inch Wheel Horse steering shaft.   The  steering wheel hub had to have a hole drilled for a roll pin to install on the steering shaft.

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 23,034]

RacinBob and I were talking yesterday, and Bob had an idea to be able to use an axle and axle gear from a 2 piece transmission and incorporate it into the 3 piece transmission.  We all know that the axle gear and spiders are the weak spot in these 3 piece transmissions, and replacements are getting hard to find.  We have already shown in this thread that you can use the spider gears out of a 2 piece tranny differential and use them in a 3 piece tranny differential.  We think you can use the axles and axle gear from a 2 piece tranny and put them into the 3 piece tranny differential. 

    Here are a couple pictures of the 2 types of axles.  The one on top is from the 3 piece tranny, and the one on the bottom is from a 2 piece tranny (#5025).  They are both the same length and diameter...10 5/8" long and 1" dia.  Both have the 1/4" hole for the roll pin on the axle gear end and both are keyed for the hub on the other.  The only difference...one is keyed and the other has a spline. 

 

The 2 types of axle gears are the same gear and the teeth are also the same width.  The one on the left is keyed and the one on the right is made to sit on the spline.

 

If you cut off the flange and use it as a spacer in the differential housing, you could switch the axles and axle gears.

 

 

 

The flange has the same OD as the bronze bearing...so everything would stay in it's place.  The bronze bearing is 1 1/2" long and 1 1/2" OD...the flange is 5/8" wide and the same 1 1/2" OD.  Pretty cool...and Bob may have found a bushing that works, so you don't even have to cut off the flange.  If the bushing is less then 5/8" you just have to cut the bronze bearing a little longer to compensate.    What do you guys think??

[Lane Ranger 11,096]

 

 

OMG is all I can Say !

[stevasaurus 23,034]

Lane, that Red paint is looking real nice. 

[Lane Ranger 11,096]

 

 

I got the seat and seat spring for the RJ  done today also!  Great day to get some stuff done and it felt like Spring is just around the corner !

[stevasaurus 23,034]

I took that 4th transmission casing out of the E-tank today.  This is the one that Lanes RJ will end up with.  I love the E-tank!!    The rust was gone from the shift rails and they are freed up.  They turn, I got the 2 fork gears out, and they shift like they are supposed to.  Wiped down the inside and outside of the case and sprayed some brake cleaner on the reverse idler and the shift rails. 

 

 

A little warm weather, some paint preparation and I can put this transmission together. 

[squonk 42,260]

Roll pin punches arrived today! Gonna put them in my glass case! 

[Lane Ranger 11,096]

I received mine today also  Mike !   They are in the tool box  but I tried two out already !   Going to be a good  set of punches !

 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Lane Ranger