SO, YOU WANT TO SAVE THAT WH 3 PIECE TRANNY

[squonk 41,287]

A regular "Mr. Lizard! " 

 

 

 

[Zeek 2,286]

This is great thread Steve, love all the detail!!

[Martin 2,132]

Steve, great thread and like others, just loving all the detail. Ive never had the need or desire to make up or use an e-tank at home, as most know what i have at work to use. I am very interested in the tank now that i can see how simple it is. One day maybe if i have the need, a project like that case you have in there, i would like to try it, rather than using mechanical means to remove all that corrosion. One question on this pic though......

Would it help or hurt the process to scoop out all that junk on the top there, or just leave it?

 

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Martin

[stevasaurus 22,841]

Thanks Martin.  It doesn't help or hurt to leave it.  If I remember, most of it will settle to the bottom after the power is turned off.  That is why I have the anodes about 1/2" off the bottom.  If it does not sink, I would skim it off after I take out the case.  I have a few more parts I want to do in this bucket.    I have an extra minnow net that I think will work for skimming.

     I just went out to check the E-Tank.  Here is a before picture of the case.

 

This is after 1 good day in the E-Tank.  Looks like another day or 2.  The gears are still locked up.

 

This is the junk on top after 1 day...the 2nd picture is after I lifted the case out for a picture.  Most of the orange rust has sunk to the bottom. 

[stevasaurus 22,841]

I wanted to get something done today...way too nice out.  I was just going to watch the E-Tank do it's thing, but as usual, something needed to get done so I just don't waste the day.  Cleaning up the axles with the 4" grinder with a wire wheel was the answer.  I needed to do this so I could see if I was going to have to turn the axles around.  Here is the before...one with a flash.  The flash catches more defects. 

 

They actually clean up very nice.  The 2 on the right are the worst...they were in the RJ from Iowa.  The one with all the rust, goop and water in it.

[dcrage 628]

Heh Steve -- Be careful with those bubbles!! -- Make sure they aren't in a confined space -- They are flammable/explosive (oxygen or hydrogen) -- Hence the reason for usually doing this outside

[Lane Ranger 10,979]

Thanks for the axle photos Steve.  Looking good!   Yes that RJ tractor also had four bad wheels too.   Not one worth saving after removing the tires.    I have a another complete set  to use on the rebuild.   Glad to see that we have two very good set of axles and like you indicate the Iowa ones can be repurposed by drilling a hole on the opposite end!     Here a a few picks from today as I took the RJ apart.    I took the frame, hood and seat pan to the sandblaster today.   The  gas tank  was rusty and had a rust hole but I have a new one for replacement.    The steering wheel and shaft were removed.  Steering wheel was shot and I have a new steering wheel  (One of the Cub Cadet 11/16 th splined ones) being drilled out and a roll pin hole being added to the steering wheel hub at my local machine shop.    The steering block off the RJ  also needed the  roll pin pieces on each end removed.  The original roll pin had rusted  off the steering shaft.!   Here are a few photos of the latest work.

 

The frame after sandblasting will need a new left support bar welded to the  hood support-original was broken off.    Gas tank supports seem ok but new hood bolts/studs are going to be needed after sandblasting.  I may also just have hood  worked on at local body shop.

 

Final picture is of the pallet with the Wheel Horse parts ready for sandblasting.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by Lane Ranger

[stevasaurus 22,841]

Lane, nice pictures.  Keep them coming and post them here and we can keep the rebuild all together.  

 

Dave, I have the garage windows open, and one in the garage attic for ventilation.  We have a few critters running around here at night...did not want to find one of them in the tank. 

 

[dcrage 628]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Dave, I have the garage windows open, and one in the garage attic for ventilation.  We have a few critters running around here at night...did not want to find one of them in the tank. 

 

 

Sounds good to me -- You have air moving which is all you need -- Just wanted to be sure you weren't doing the e-tank in your basement with the rest of your winter WH transmission work

[stevasaurus 22,841]

Dave, thanks Mate...I need to be kept an eye on. 

[Lane Ranger 10,979]

ACman mentioned a product called Evapo-Rust and I have used before on several small rusted Wheel Horse parts.   Some of you Red Square members may be interested in using this .

 

  I am cleaning some small sediment bowls with this in a  cottage cheese dish.    I bought my one gallon can at NAPA auot supply.   You can reuse it and it is  a very safe non-corrosive product.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gernzz8 38]

Steve, maybe you can do a comparison using Evapo-Rust.

It has Rave Reviews.......... a product that can clean this well and is Biodegradable is hard to believe.

 

 

 

 

The key word is....."Chelation"

It may work on the axles?

 

[WHX?? 49,100]

I like your post......but and and a big but. ... sounded too much like an infomercia and I never believe those..l. ... now if they wanna send  me a free sample to try on a precious bull gear....

[diesel cowboy 263]

The Evapo-Rust works great.  I've gone through probably around 20 gallons if it so far in the past 4 years.  The only things they didn't mention that I've found is the heavily rusted stuff can take up to 3 days soaking to get it all off, it works best when all the dirt and oil is removed, when you take it out you need to use a wire brush with the water to get the carbon off, and it says on the package but they didn't mention it that it will only do around 300 pounds of metal before it turns black and is used up.  I've used it on mostly steel and cast iron to free up frozen parts and clean them and it didn't harm the 60+ year old paint that was on it until I left it soaking for 4 days and then it was soft enough to come off with the wire brush.  I also put a Briggs carb. in it that had a broken jet stuck in it just to see what would happen because it claims to not harm aluminium and brass and after a week it hadn't harmed the metals at all and the jet was still stuck

[Gernzz8 38]

7 hours ago, diesel cowboy said:

I also put a Briggs carb. in it.

 

Did it work as well as the 5 gallon acid baths?

Jim, I looked at a few other YouTube posts (independent) and they were amazed at how well it worked. The ones that I viewed had only soaked them for about 24 hrs. It is good to know that we have a member with 4 years experience and up to 4 days soaking time..........Then I started watching how well vinegar baths work!.......I was stuck in the "Rabbit Hole" for another couple of hours, I hate when that happens?? 

[diesel cowboy 263]

6 hours ago, Gernzz8 said:

 

Did it work as well as the 5 gallon acid baths?

 

I've never used acid baths for cleaning parts before.  For years at work all we used for getting rust off was a wire wheel or sandblaster until I saw an article about electrolysis in the Red Power magazine and set up a tank to try it and it worked so much better and easier that I used that until I saw Evapo-rust at Harbor Freight.  Didn't think something I found there would work too good so I only got a quart and was surprised at how good it worked so I've been buying it buy the gallon ever since at Tractor Supply.  As for cleaning carbs I use the Gunk Hydroseal II carb cleaner.  It always worked good until they started with the ethanol in the gas and now it doesn't work as well and takes a lot longer to do anything to the carbs and I still have to take a small wire brush to clean the inside surfaces

[stevasaurus 22,841]

I took that transmission case out of the E-Tank today...it has been in there 6 to 7 days.  You are not going to believe these pictures!!  The gears cleaned up, the shift rails shift with the shifter now, the case cleaned up nice.  I also took a wire wheel to the differential housing (this has been sitting in my parts washer tank a couple of days), and I wire wheeled the side plates to get ready for paint.  A little spot cleaning, filing, paint and this is ready to go back together...need to weld one bolt nubbie though.  I am going to show before and after pictures here, so you do not have to go back through the thread to find them.  Check this out!! 

 

 

AFTER.  the fork gears, spline shaft & pinion, reverse idler and forks and shift rails. 

 

 

Before and after on the differential housing and bull gear.

 

And the side plates...before and then after.

[woodchuckfarmer 333]

Its too bad someone cant come up with a gear to replace the bull gear. Turn the old worn out gear down and press on the new one.

[stevasaurus 22,841]

 

Hi Wayne.    That is what Wheel Horse did when they came up with this set up.  I'm sure it was a cost effective deal.  I've seen 3 of these so far, and they all have been OK.

 

 

Here is a short video on these differentials and bull gears.  I'm also going to add this video, which shows the difference between the other 2 types of differentials that Wheel Horse used before they got to the separates.

 

 

 

 

I do have a loose bolt in the one I have here, so I will take some better pictures of it when I take it apart. 

 

 

[woodchuckfarmer 333]

Ive been there Steve. Changed my 59 RJ  to the newer stile gears. good explanation on this thanks

Edited February 5, 2016 by woodchuckfarmer

[stevasaurus 22,841]

Got 1 set of RJ side plates ready for paint today.  I wanted to install all the bearings before paint for obvious reasons.  I had a few burrs where I had to tap out the old bearings.  I hit these with a punch and tapped down anything sticking up.

 

I also filed any burrs on the side plate where the bolt holes are and used a hammer on each side to smooth any bumps.

In the above picture, something got caught under the differential gear for a while.  You can see the worn circle.

 

Cleaned up and ready for the bearings.  I'm not sure if I have to do anything about the wallowed out bolt holes yet.  They may be OK...this sits on the gasket.  If anything, I would fill with JB weld and use plastic wrap for where I did not want it to stick.  ???

 

 

OK...there are 4 S8K open bearings, and 3 NICE 412-35 closed bearings that go in these side plates.  The difference between open and closed bearings is the machining of the bearings themselves.  I would call the open bearings on the sloppy side, and the closed bearings more refined and tighter.  These bearings have the same ID 3/4" and OD 1 5/8" , but the thickness is different...S8K is 5/16" and the NICE 412-35 is 3/8".  When you look at this picture...the left side plate shows where the differential carriage rides at the top...moving down shows an S8K where the brake shaft goes through...below that is the closed bearing that holds the cluster gear shaft...then at the bottom, the open bearing that holds the spline shaft with the fork gears.  The plate on the right is a mirror image.  The top is the differential carriage, below is the closed bearing that holds the large end of the mushroom gear...right and below that is the other closed bearing for the cluster gear shaft...and then you have the 2 open bearings that hold the input shaft..   I know...that is a lot to chew on, but the picture shows the correct placement of the bearings.  Many times, I have opened a case to find different configurations.

To seat the bearings, I tap them 1st with a ball peen to start them and then work my way around with the hammer until they are flush with the rim of the plate.  You do not want to seat them all the way down, as they will bind...flush is what you want.  The bearing should turn freely when seated.

]

 

Now comes the bronze axle bearings.  These come in the correct length...the differential carriage ones need to be cut to length first.  I take a piece of 2 x 4 to tap in the bronze.  Cleaning out the axle housing and a little oil on the outside of the bearing goes a long way.

 

Get the bronze bearing down to flush with the 2 x 4 and then use an arbor to tap the bearing down the last 1/8" to accept the SKF 9815 seal.  We are going to double seal these axles.

 

A quick shot of the bronze bearings (both sizes) and then the outside of the RJ plates are primed.

 

Paint was still wet. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dclarke 4,033]

Lots of good info here, Steve. I'm sure glad you're doing this. 

[Lane Ranger 10,979]

Wow Steve!     That E tank is the "cats Meow"  for cleaning rust!     I cannot believe how clean of a job that E tank did inside!   

 

What actually causes the wallowing out of the side plate bolt holes Steve?  

Also the older single piece differential does look heavier or stronger than the later two piece  differential bull gear housing?    I am sure it is not much different in quality but it sure does look like it.

 

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,841]

Thanks Denny...this is turning out to be..."everything you ever wanted to know about 3 piece transmissions."

 

Lane, I am not sure what caused that wallowing out yet.  The plate is straight and square, and if you look...the wallowing out is on the inside of the plates...the outside bolt holes are fine.  There was some rust, but I did not E-Tank the plates.  E-Tanking would not have hurt anyway.  There are 9 bolts on each side plate, and the fact that there are only 3 wallowed out and the other 6 are OK...the plate was not moving around. It almost has to be just rust.

 

I've been looking at the difference between the differential housings...you are not going to believe what I suspect.  Where is RacinBob and Buckrancher??  Pictures to follow on this maybe Saturday.  Lane, remember what you typed above...this is going to be huge. 

[Racinbob 11,179]

I'm lurking Steve and enjoying this thread You're doing an incredible job with it.

 

I don't see the wallowed out holes as an issue at all but it is strange that it happened to only three. It looks like they are back by the differential so I wonder if whatever was being dragged around beat the snot out of the protruding bolt nubbies?? You probably already do but I used thread sealant on the lower boles that stay immersed in oil. I'm looking forward to the new pictures on what will be huge