E - Tank Question

[kasey54 305]

Hoping this is an ok place to ask this,

I'm wondering if the E Tanks will function in a non heated

Shed or garage in these New York Upstate winters. Do higher

concentrations of the arm and hammer help with the freezing?

[AMC RULES 37,102]

Humm...you could always mix up a small batch.     

A gallon left out in the cold for a few hours, you'll have your answer. 

[meadowfield 2,570]

they generally don't mind the cold, providing you get a few watts of heat into the electrolyte then it's all good!

[stevasaurus 22,527]

I've had my tank freeze up (5 gal bucket)...think it was below 20 degrees Fahrenheit at the time.  More Washing Soda is not going to do much of anything.  Remember that this process gives off Hydrogen gas, which is explosive...you want to do this in a well ventilated area...which means that it will be hard to heat.

           Depending on the size of your container, you could put the container in a cardboard box, line the box with aluminum foil on the inside and use 1 or 2 100W light bulbs to heat the inside of the box.  A small vent in the top should be OK and the temp may be held above 20 degrees.  I am offering this as a suggestion.  I have not tried this for electrolysis.  I have used this process for making homemade wine.  It is used to make Madeira...which needs to cook for about 4 months at around 130 degrees.  The box is called a estufa,  You can insulate the outside of the box with a blanket. 

            Also remember that the tank only has to be large enough to hold what you want to take the rust off. 

 

[roadapples 6,983]

Wouldn`t doubt that Madeira would remove rust too Steve, but why waste it...

[kasey54 305]

Thanks guys for the thoughts .I  was thinking off setting up a 55 gallon barrel in a well ventilated garage , but it is not heated

I wouldn't waste that Madeira either, !

[stevasaurus 22,527]

You might be able to wrap your barrel in an electric blanket...or...only about 6 to 8 weeks of winter yet.    We do not waste Madeira. 

[illinilefttackle 399]

I have used a Mobile Home water pipe heat tape with some success on a 5 gallon barrel- Thanks- Al

[kasey54 305]

Ok, sure a heat tape would work in all but the coldest weather.

Once it is energized probably just a blanket would help . Thanks ,

 good food for thought. In a 55 gal barrel I could hopefully do four wheels at once.

 

[roadapples 6,983]

Tractor supply has heaters to keep livestock water from freezing. I`m not sure how expensive but they come in different sizes..

[stevasaurus 22,527]

It has to be something that is not in the solution so it does not react with the process.  Metals like copper, aluminum and stainless steel are a no no,  and could make the solution toxic. 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

The process itself will generate some heat and heat helps speed up the reaction but brutal cold will slow or stop it.  Consider insulating the tank all around and an insulated top.  Easy enough to do and you could even start with a large cooler with lid.  Maybe the reaction would heat it enough then, but if you have to add heat, say a stock tub warmer, make sure it can handle your solutions!  I always used lye so aluminum is out of the question.  Follow Steve's advice about not using stainless as an anode.

[formariz 11,974]

I have run into this issue in the past. I used an aquarium heater. It is submersible and it is not affected by anything in the tank since it is made out of glass and "chemical proof" plastic. It is also adjustable the better ones pretty much going to the boiling point. One will be sufficient for up to about 15 gallons. After that if it is real cold you may need more.

[russellmc301 600]

i'm not trying to be dumb but what is a e-tank i looked it up and it it looks like an oxygen tank. what is it uses?

 

 

[formariz 11,974]

On 1/13/2016 at 2:54 PM, stevasaurus said:

I've had my tank freeze up (5 gal bucket)...think it was below 20 degrees Fahrenheit at the time.  More Washing Soda is not going to do much of anything.  Remember that this process gives off Hydrogen gas, which is explosive...you want to do this in a well ventilated area...which means that it will be hard to heat.

           Depending on the size of your container, you could put the container in a cardboard box, line the box with aluminum foil on the inside and use 1 or 2 100W light bulbs to heat the inside of the box.  A small vent in the top should be OK and the temp may be held above 20 degrees.  I am offering this as a suggestion.  I have not tried this for electrolysis.  I have used this process for making homemade wine.  It is used to make Madeira...which needs to cook for about 4 months at around 130 degrees.  The box is called a estufa,  You can insulate the outside of the box with a blanket. 

            Also remember that the tank only has to be large enough to hold what you want to take the rust off. 

 

Explosive, well ventilated area,Madeira, cooking..... I just don't understand the kind of foolish stuff you get into.

 

[kasey54 305]

 formariz,

Great looking set up! Very nice.

The aquarium tank heater is an excellent idea

have to wonder why I didn't think of it , Thanks

[DennisThornton 4,769]

14 minutes ago, russellmc301 said:

i'm not trying to be dumb but what is a e-tank i looked it up and it it looks like an oxygen tank. what is it uses?

 

 

 

Ton's on Google.  (electrolysis tank  "rust removal")!  Rust removal with a hose and scrub brush!

8 minutes ago, formariz said:

Explosive, well ventilated area,Madeira, cooking..... I just don't understand the kind of foolish stuff you get into.

 

 

 

Well, you just started something!  Samples for all members?  What'd that copper set you back?  Wonder what a copper Wheel Horse would cost?

[kasey54 305]

Russel,

an E-tank is a container you energize to cause electrolysis for

the purpose of removing rust from rusty parts. I've never done it

but think I'm getting ready to.

[AMC RULES 37,102]

19 minutes ago, russellmc301 said:

i'm not trying to be dumb but what is a e-tank i looked it up and it it looks like an oxygen tank. what is it uses?

 

 

 

For reference...

 

 

[WHX?? 48,035]

To answer your question Russell an e- tank is short for electrolysis tank wherein a container is filled with water and washing soda. A small voltage is a applied through electrodes (usually a battery charger for us home brews). The process will remove rust from horse parts. Will find alot more info on the net.....and here. I'm way to slow AMC has got it. 

The only dumb question is one that is not asked.

Um ahhh Dennis.....I think that's  Formariz' still....not an e tank...

[clip 185]

If you're talking about the steel drums, I'm thinking the 55 gal drum wouldn't work for an e-tank unless your cathodes and anodes were both insulated.

 

Also, you might be able to put a little antifreeze in the e-tank instead of heating it but I don't know how that would affect the process.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Yes indeed @WHX6 !  And very interesting!

 

I think the fish tank heater is a great idea.  Just give it lots of protection!  Steel drums will work but I would prefer to still use and isolate separate anodes and cathodes.  Plastic drums aren't that hard to come by around here and much preferred, though I am tempted to try a 275g oil tank. Could almost put a whole WH in that!  (Though don't!  Wouldn't want that solution in the trans!)

 

Interesting thought to use antifreeze and I suppose windshield washer fluid would work and not be too cost prohibitive.  Problem is the solution works much better warm or even hot.  Not sure how well it would work at 0 (F or C!) even if it didn't freeze.

[stevasaurus 22,527]

I think anti-freeze is a very bad idea...could make the solution toxic.  I don't think you want to use metal containers either.  Be safe!!  If you do not mess with the solution and you do not use non-ferris metals, you can dump the solution around your shrubs and not hurt them.  Buy any size plastic garbage can or a plastic swimming pool if you need something larger then a 5 gallon bucket.  This link is one of the best for explaining the process and what to watch out for...MUST READING if you have not done this and are looking to try it...OR IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND WANT TO TRY SOMETHING. 

http://www.oldengine.org/members/orrin/rustdemo.htm

 

Cas...out standing pictures Mate. 

[formariz 11,974]

9 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

I think anti-freeze is a very bad idea...could make the solution toxic.  I don't think you want to use metal containers either.  Be safe!!  If you do not mess with the solution and you do not use non-ferris metals, you can dump the solution around your shrubs and not hurt them.  Buy any size plastic garbage can or a plastic swimming pool if you need something larger then a 5 gallon bucket.  This link is one of the best for explaining the process and what to watch out for...must reading if you have not done this and are looking to try it. 

http://www.oldengine.org/members/orrin/rustdemo.htm

 

Cas...out standing pictures Mate. 

 

All kidding and other distractions aside and sticking to subject at hand , PLEASE do research it and become familiar with it before proceeding. Many do not attempt ideas here. Stick to plain water with Arm&Hammer detergent. Stay away from metal containers. Steve has provided a great link to this process. Read it over and over. Take this advice from someone who obviously does engage in foolish activities.

Edited January 18, 2016 by formariz

[kasey54 305]

I have ordered my Arm and Hammer washing soda and dug up a 55 gallon plastic barrel. I have some rebar I use for staking tomatoes and an old battery charger . I think this is a good way to start and big enough for what I want. I'm not sure a fender panel will fit in it , but lots of things will. I think any additives to this solution is an unworthy risk to hazards unknown for breathing, and to the disposal of the solution.  It could be a few weeks before I try it and the weather may be to cold, but hey spring is on the way . It would be nice to be able to wash the parts off out side with a hose and scrub brush , so as anxious as I am , warm weather sounds very enticing. I'm assuming I should also be ready with some primer to stop future rusting.