5025 Uni-Drive casting question

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,175]

I'm spending the winter months rebuilding a few Uni-Drives and have a question about a casting difference I've noticed on a couple of my 5025 transmissions.

why do some of  the 5025's have a notch/or bump casted into the axle outlet area?   I say some because one of the transmissions from a 1962 Lawn Ranger, with the  supposed   5025 , doesn't have the notches .   My 854 has the notches (on the 5025) but haven't seen these on any others.  

 

No rebuild issues here, Just curious if anybody knows why these are found on 5025s.   Here a couple of pics.... 

Edited December 11, 2015 by Terry M

[WHX?? 48,815]

I'm thinking just different molds they were cast in..... maybe @stevasaurus can help out?

[Racinbob 11,081]

I'm thinking just the mold used too. Currently I have what were supposed to be two 5053 transmissions completely disassembled. After getting them opened up it was obvious that one of them wasn't a 5053 but an earlier version. Only the left case half on the older unit has that notch thingy

Edited December 12, 2015 by Racinbob

[stevasaurus 22,741]

Good eye Terry.    I happen to have 1 #5025 in parts that I just spent the afternoon cleaning up.  I have another spare that I rebuilt a few years ago.  Both of these have those little nubbies...I checked my 702 (which does have a for real # 5025 transmission) and it does not have those.  It is possible that it is just a casting thing, but looking at where they are located, it is possible that it was meant to strengthen the axle housing for pulling a plow through a field or a tiller.  What are the casting dates on the transmissions that you are working on Terry??...and I will check mine.  Bob, you seem to have 2 different halves...should be a casting date on both.  Some of these Section II so called 5025's (5007, 5025, 5046, 5048, 5049, and 5053) are kind of ear marked for Rangers, but not entirely.  We have been spending time for a while trying to figure out the difference between these transmissions.  Part of it is what they were doing with the fork shafts.  Terry, (Stevasaurus of the North)...RacinBob and I are going to want to know what those shafts look like also...ie...do they have a flat side on the shaft to reduce oil suction and pressure...are the grooves all the way around the shaft. 

[Racinbob 11,081]

I didn't look at the casting dates this afternoon Steve. I will tomorrow. I was pretty sure that tranny has been screwed with big time.

[stevasaurus 22,741]

Bob, I am not sure if the casting dates will help or not, but it is another difference.  I will grab my casting dates tomorrow also.  Guess what...that trans I got form you has the flat, ground shafts with deeper grooves, but the grooves are not lathed all the way around.  Pictures to follow.    It seems there is an up-date kit (7168) that changes a #5048 trans to a #5053...is this the groove thingy we are talking about?? 

[Racinbob 11,081]

I think you're talking about when they first switched from the 35xx rails to the 56xx (on the left in the picture). I haven't been able to confirm when they went to the circular detent. Only the center, neutral detent should be deeper. That's how the transmission 'knew' one of the rails was in the neutral position. Making all the detents the same depth would defeat the purpose. The 5048 was an oddball. All the others in the 3 speed unidrive category use the 3906 bull gear. Keep in mind that I'm referring to the transmissions with the spur gear differential, not the bevel gears.  The 5048 used a 5575 bull gear and the axles and axle gears were ine piece. The 7168 kit changed that stuff effectively making it a 5053 (service bulletins #76 and #98). The 5048 was the first 3 speed to utilize the 56xx rails but you know how Wheel Horse liked to use up parts. The only tractors that had the 5048 were the L-105 and L-155 Rangers.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Racinbob

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,175]

I will look for the casting dates and check the shifting shafts too.    Andrew's Lawn Ranger trans (5053)is also slated for a rebuild do to axle shaft seals that started leaking lube oil all over his new powder coated rims.   Sometime tomorrow, I'll try to take some pics too if you don't  mind the lower quality pics..(have a new camera on my x-mas wish list)

 

until tomorrow

[stevasaurus 22,741]

The casting dates on the trans I have apart are "B19%4 and M20%3.  1963 & 1964...not sure what "M" means, there is only 12 months (last time I checked).

Here is a couple of pictures of the fork shafts...the neutral notch appears to be the same depth as the other notches.

 

Bob, the gears in this trans are like brand new.    Looks like I got some good shots of the flat on the fork shaft.  Terry, if you forks do not have this flat, you may want to either file or grind them to match. 

 

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,175]

OK, I found the trans from the 62 lawn ranger had no flat side on the fork shafts.  the trans from the 63 Lawn ranger did.  Everything else seems the same.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Terry M

[stevasaurus 22,741]

Cool...B19%2 = February 19, 1962....A29%3 = Junuary 29, 1963.  Looks like you have an A28%3 and I can't read the 4th one...looks like a "C" = March.  The notches in the shafts that do not have the flats are not as pronounced as in the ones with the flat.    Thanks Terry.

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,175]

That one is hard to read Steve....Just appears as "C1 - 2"   to my eyeballs.

I forgot to mention, I think I remember someone saying that when the Unidrive cases are cast, machined / manufactured, they were pretty much stacked in a pile waiting for  assembly....So that is why date codes don't always match up on a finished Trans.    I think Jason/Casual observer stated that once.....but I could be wrong.

[stevasaurus 22,741]

That is what I was thinking...that would be March 1, 1962. 

Any guesses on what a "M" would be??? 

 

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,175]

The "M"??  My only guess would be someone forgot to start over with an "A"...or the current or "to Be"  discontinued Model trans went into the next year   (dec. - Jan.) . Just a guess

[wallfish 17,000]

The "M"??

My guess is the foundry didn't use the letter " I " for Sept. since it could be confused with a number 1.

Edited December 12, 2015 by wallfish

[stevasaurus 22,741]

You know John...you are the reason I keep coming back to the show.    I would miss you if it was longer then 12 months.  I think you are absolutely correct...so my "M" would be December.    Gatta be.    Thanks Mate

[Racinbob 11,081]

Aside from the rails the cases leave no doubt that one of the two 5053's that were given to me isn't a 5053 even though it was bolted to a 657. The castings are H1%3 and L2%3. The first 5053's were in 1966. It must be a 5025 or 5046 transplant.

Is that the transmission I took to the show for you Steve?

I'm thinking the flat ground on the rail to relieve the suction/pressure will really minimize most of the issues. Going a step further with the deeper neutral detents is just tweaking it more. I think it's interesting that you can see the progression of the engineering pretty clearly.

[WHX?? 48,815]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

The "M"??

My guess is the foundry didn't use the letter " I " for Sept. since it could be confused with a number 1.

Very common for manufacturers to do just that.

[stevasaurus 22,741]

You see what we can accomplish at a non-scheduled board meeting on Red Square and the input comes from all over the country and sometimes from all over the world.    Why would I happen to have one with an "M" on it???

 

Yes Bob, it is the trans I got from you.