Deck stress cracks?

[DennisThornton 4,769]

My new to me 48" xi series recycler overall appears to be in pretty darned good shape but it's had quite a bit of welding!  I see no signs of a crash or other damage so I can only assume stress cracks but man!  Major!
The wheels show signs of usage for sure but I'm still surprise by all the welding!  Is this just more common than I think?  What else could it be?

I got some serious grinding to make it look good again but then I'm a bit afraid to grind all of it off?  Welded both sides but not enough heat for my liking.  Weld stands pretty proud of the surface.

[WNYPCRepair 1,914]

Crap! I can weld that good, and I can barely weld.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Crap! I can weld that good, and I can barely weld.

Yeah, it's not much to brag about but at least they did both sides.  Hopefully it met in the middle but honestly, I don't know!  Pretty bad!

What size is your deck?  Any cracks?

[WNYPCRepair 1,914]

Crap! I can weld that good, and I can barely weld.

Yeah, it's not much to brag about but at least they did both sides.  Hopefully it met in the middle but honestly, I don't know!  Pretty bad!

What size is your deck?  Any cracks?

Mine is a 44". but honestly I haven't had time to do much with it. My wife just started back to work part time, so now I have a little more free time. I will pull it out and take a look within the next few days now, after seeing yours. 

 

This is the one I bought:

 

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/57527-2001-522xi-for-sale-700hrs/#comment-531514
 

[Ed Kennell 38,021]

I agree Dennis, that weld should be ground off. Put a heat sink plate on the back and stich that crack back together.

Is the support frame twisted, or is that just the angle of the first picture?

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I agree Dennis, that weld should be ground off. Put a heat sink plate on the back and stich that crack back together.

Is the support frame twisted, or is that just the angle of the first picture?

No other damage that I can see.  The lift rails/support frame is just caught a bit on the rt side and not going down.  It's the way I lifted and left it.  
Sad the chap never tried anything differently!  It's very consistent!  Just as bad on the bottom as the top!  Just as bad from beginning to end!

[slammer302 2,155]

My xi deck that I just got has a crack in it too and this is common on other models too

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Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[SylvanLakeWH 25,489]

My 82 c105 deck has very similar cracks at the bolts / plates for the deck adjustment arm. Past owners welded plates to reinforce but the just transferred stress to the end of the plates for new cracks to form. Need to clean off the crap and see, but looks like larger plates...

I think this is common on these decks from what I see on CL pictures...

[DennisThornton 4,769]

If this is common then before I touch it I'd like to know how to permanently fix/reinforce it.  I'm shocked at how far the assumed stress cracks progressed without any other signs of damage. 

Crap! I can weld that good, and I can barely weld.

Yeah, it's not much to brag about but at least they did both sides.  Hopefully it met in the middle but honestly, I don't know!  Pretty bad!

What size is your deck?  Any cracks?

Mine is a 44". but honestly I haven't had time to do much with it. My wife just started back to work part time, so now I have a little more free time. I will pull it out and take a look within the next few days now, after seeing yours. 

 

This is the one I bought:

 

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/57527-2001-522xi-for-sale-700hrs/#comment-531514
 

I remember you being interested but I never put 2 and 2 together until now.  Not a great shot but I don't see any cracks on your 44" deck".  As heavy as this 48" is I'm not sure I'd want to fight a bigger one, though I've always thought I wanted a 60".

I want your wheel weights!

Edited November 9, 2015 by DennisThornton
I want your wheel weights!

[doc724 925]

I just had to have several spots on my 42 inch RD deck (for classic tractors) welded.  All of them were around around bolt holes.  The square holes for carriage bolts are natural stress raisers due to the sharp corners.  However, in my case there was evidence that the PO had hit something with the deck, not enough to deform the 1/2 inch diameter front reinforcing bars, but enough to cause tearing around the holes that hold the lift carriage to the deck.  For a 48 inch xi deck to have damage like that, I would suspect that it was run over by something heavy-like a pick up truck!  More common stress cracks are found around the center spindle bolt holes due to a combination of vibration, bad bearings, and a belt that was too tight.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Don, I've seen some incredible spider stress cracks around some spindles!

This is where you wouldn't think stress cracks would develop and so long it make no sense to me yet I see no other reason.  I do suspect something else but I see no signs of impact!  It's still a mystery to me!

What size deck is on your 520xi?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,031]

I think the cracks around the spindles and maybe more are caused by out-of-balance blades. The cheap cone balancers that are available leave a lot to be desired. Most of our decks have 3 spindles and if each has it's own shake they set up some serious harmonics in the deck pan.

Garry

[cleat 5,808]

I have a 48" deck that is currently all apart and sandblasted awaiting welding. This is the one that came on the 520-HC.

It is very badly cracked mainly around the spindles and it is also twisted. I have never used it and it came this way. I assume it must be from a combination of running over rough ground and out of balance blades or possibly it had bad
spindle bearings with a lot of play.

Even the reinforcement plate is broken up and will be replaced with a good used one that I have.

No rust holes, just lots of cracks. My other two 48" decks have rust issues to deal with.

Cleat

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I think the cracks around the spindles and maybe more are caused by out-of-balance blades. The cheap cone balancers that are available leave a lot to be desired. Most of our decks have 3 spindles and if each has it's own shake they set up some serious harmonics in the deck pan.

Garry

I agree!  Most of those spider cracks are from out-of-balanced blades.  But what do we use besides the cone balancers?

I have a 48" deck that is currently all apart and sandblasted awaiting welding. This is the one that came on the 520-HC.

It is very badly cracked mainly around the spindles and it is also twisted. I have never used it and it came this way. I assume it must be from a combination of running over rough ground and out of balance blades or possibly it had bad
spindle bearings with a lot of play.

Even the reinforcement plate is broken up and will be replaced with a good used one that I have.

No rust holes, just lots of cracks. My other two 48" decks have rust issues to deal with.

Cleat

All of what you mentioned applies to a lot of decks but not sure of this one.  NO damage or cracks anywhere but the welds.  Very localized indicating trying to take out a tree but then no signs of impact.  Just welds!

I mean I know it was not a welding practice, though it looks like someone practicing how to, it's just that I see no other issues.

[Toolmanbill 32]

I have two 42 sd decks that have extreme cracks around the center spindle.one deck lasted 15 years the second lasted only 5years.any idea about the main reason for this?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,031]

I agree!  Most of those spider cracks are from out-of-balanced blades.  But what do we use besides the cone balancers?

If you are a woodworker the answer may be in your collection of router bits. A router pilot bearing with an OD that matches the blade hole diameter can be mounted on a horizontal shaft, pin or machine screw (or leave it on the router bit) and you hang the blade on the bearing. These bearings have a very light lubricant and are ideal for this process. Replacement bearings are usually available from anyone that sells router bits.

I'm not a rocket scientist but suspect the reason a nail or cone balancers are not as accurate is a good portion of the blade weight or all of the blade weight is below the pivot point of the balancer acting as a pendulum which masks most of the out of balance condition.

I don't use any blades with the 5/8" x 3/4" double-D hole but think one could make a bushing from a 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD bushing by filing 2 flats on it to fit the 5/8" dimension. Hang that on a 1/2" OD router bearing.

Have learned when you get the blade balanced and are doing it outside in an undetectable breeze the blade will windmill. It should be done indoors so a wind has no effect on it.
Check the balance often when sharpening. I use a 7" hand-held grinder and have seen 1 swipe take a blade from unbalanced to balanced.

Garry

[PaulC 341]

Dennis grind those caterpillars off already its hurting my eyes . Once you do I would suggest "bumping" it in from the back side. What I mean is a series of really hot tack welds from the backside. This will give you great penetration but limited heat and warpage. You essentially hold in that one spot getting it real nice and hot to where youll see the penetration on the outside and bounce around from one crack to another, once your done it will actually look decent too like a roll of nickels similar to tig welding. Once youre all done from the bottom minimal grinding from the top and youll be all set leave the bottom side alone. If you really want to fix it up nicely you can use JB weld as bondo to fill and smooth any mis matched areas, put masking tape over the JB as it dries to prevent gravity from making it droop.This is a good method for welding sheet metal and the only way to repair holes if you have any, just hot enough to melt and add some filler but not hot enough to fall out the bottom.

I also agree with Gary on his balancing method. I bought myself a 1/4" i.d. by 3/4" o.d. bearing off of amazon for 8 bucks. I put a 1/4-20 bolt through it with a nut to hold the bearing and then just stuck the exposed part of the bolt into a slightly smaller hole I drilled in the side of my work bench. It ends up working like a fancy expensive balancer for under 10 bucks. My decks run dramatically quieter since ive started doing this.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,031]

Found this list of the common router bit bearings. If you have a choice get the widest or thickest bearing available. I used 2 bearings with a small thin spacer between the inner races for one size so the blade had more to sit on.

Garry

Edited November 10, 2015 by gwest_ca

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Dennis grind those caterpillars off already its hurting my eyes . Once you do I would suggest "bumping" it in from the back side. What I mean is a series of really hot tack welds from the backside. This will give you great penetration but limited heat and warpage. You essentially hold in that one spot getting it real nice and hot to where youll see the penetration on the outside and bounce around from one crack to another, once your done it will actually look decent too like a roll of nickels similar to tig welding. Once youre all done from the bottom minimal grinding from the top and youll be all set leave the bottom side alone. If you really want to fix it up nicely you can use JB weld as bondo to fill and smooth any mis matched areas, put masking tape over the JB as it dries to prevent gravity from making it droop.This is a good method for welding sheet metal and the only way to repair holes if you have any, just hot enough to melt and add some filler but not hot enough to fall out the bottom.

I also agree with Gary on his balancing method. I bought myself a 1/4" i.d. by 3/4" o.d. bearing off of amazon for 8 bucks. I put a 1/4-20 bolt through it with a nut to hold the bearing and then just stuck the exposed part of the bolt into a slightly smaller hole I drilled in the side of my work bench. It ends up working like a fancy expensive balancer for under 10 bucks. My decks run dramatically quieter since ive started doing this.

"Catepillars"!  I like that!  Hate them, though.  Yeah, I wish they had left it alone and let me do it.  Problem is the backside/underneath is just as bad and underneath all you see above!  Plus, access to the top with a big grinder is awkward.  I am going to take your's and Garry's advice about balancing blades on a bearing.  Like that too!

[Don1977 604]

That's a piss pour design welding those brackets to the sheet metal deck. The old wheel Horse bolted design you could add reinforcing plates to the inside of the deck.
I would clean up the old welds, straighten and weld as required. I would use a 3/16 flat bar to fit in that bracket and bent to fit the deck weld to the bracket. Then bolt through the deck to a wider plate inside. Can't see if that is possible from the picture with the baffle.
Here is what I did to my deck. There is a angle bolted to the top with large plates inside at all the bolts.



 

[PaulC 341]

"Catepillars"!  I like that!  Hate them, though.  Yeah, I wish they had left it alone and let me do it.  Problem is the backside/underneath is just as bad and underneath all you see above!  Plus, access to the top with a big grinder is awkward.  I am going to take your's and Garry's advice about balancing blades on a bearing.  Like that too!

Sounds like you need to get yourself a 4 1/2" grinder!

 

That's a piss pour design welding those brackets to the sheet metal deck. The old wheel Horse bolted design you could add reinforcing plates to the inside of the deck.
I would clean up the old welds, straighten and weld as required. I would use a 3/16 flat bar to fit in that bracket and bent to fit the deck weld to the bracket. Then bolt through the deck to a wider plate inside. Can't see if that is possible from the picture with the baffle.
Here is what I did to my deck. There is a angle bolted to the top with large plates inside at all the bolts.



 

the angle iron is a great idea!   really stiffen up the backside there where it can flex a whole bunch.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

"Catepillars"!  I like that!  Hate them, though.  Yeah, I wish they had left it alone and let me do it.  Problem is the backside/underneath is just as bad and underneath all you see above!  Plus, access to the top with a big grinder is awkward.  I am going to take your's and Garry's advice about balancing blades on a bearing.  Like that too!

Sounds like you need to get yourself a 4 1/2" grinder!

 

That's a piss pour design welding those brackets to the sheet metal deck. The old wheel Horse bolted design you could add reinforcing plates to the inside of the deck.
I would clean up the old welds, straighten and weld as required. I would use a 3/16 flat bar to fit in that bracket and bent to fit the deck weld to the bracket. Then bolt through the deck to a wider plate inside. Can't see if that is possible from the picture with the baffle.
Here is what I did to my deck. There is a angle bolted to the top with large plates inside at all the bolts.



 

the angle iron is a great idea!   really stiffen up the backside there where it can flex a whole bunch.

I've got about every grinder known to mankind and several 4 1/2" with different discs and pads but my "caterpillar"  removers are BIG heavy units!

I'll have to take a closer look at my deck again.  It's still hard for me to think that they are stress cracks, but...

[JPWH 6,032]

You can pot the deck up on blocks and push the wheel down and pull up on it to see what moves.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

You can pot the deck up on blocks and push the wheel down and pull up on it to see what moves.

Deck seems solid!  Wheels aren't and some need replaced.

[bds1984 1,429]

Dennis,
I have experienced the usual cracking around the lift areas on the 48" decks; your example is new to me on a WH.  It almost looks like the deck have been used over some rough terrain and it bounced a lot.  I have had that happen on a 46" deck on my dad's old Yardman garden tractor after a decade of use of mowing nearly four acres, twice a week.  It is either that or that gauge wheel caught a hold of something that was immovable or much heavier.