PTO indicator light stays on

[gsummers 236]

 A couple of weeks ago I picked up a 1986 417-A, it is in nice shape except I don`t  think it has ever had a bath, looks like the PO used it for Mud Bogging. A couple of cans of degreaser and washing with the hose and pressure washer revealed a very nice horse. Now the problem, noticed the other day the battery was weak, hmmm, it is almost new, then noticed the PTO indicator was glowing with the key in off position, can get off the seat with PTO running and it does not kill the engine. What did I screw up now? I have all the wiring schematics for it but I am not an electrical inclined person. Where do I start to look?

[953 nut 57,861]

Can't treat the newer ones like the good old stuff, pressure washers and electronics don't mix well. Get some spray electronics parts cleaner and give all of the dash components a liberal cleaning. Make sure you protect painted surfaces because it may ruin the finish.

[cleat 7,013]

Even taking an air hose and blowing all the water out of all electrical components may help.

I just got done washing my 3 520's with no issue but I did it by hand with no pressure washing.

Cleat

[gsummers 236]

Update on my problem, I charged the battery today and about dark I hooked the battery back up and also noticed that the seat safety switch light was also on, so whatever my problem is it in the pto and seat switch circuit. Hope that sheds a little more light on the problem. Hope someone can help.

Edited October 26, 2015 by gsummers

[953 nut 57,861]

Take a look at this wiring diagram. It should help you out.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/5166-tractor-1986-417-series-wiring-onlypdf/

[gsummers 236]

Thanks 953 nut, I have that wiring diagram, but as I stated, I really have no clue on what it is telling me, what circuits should I be looking at and what wires and switches should I be looking at?
Thanks, Greg

[gsummers 236]

Me again, I guess what I am asking is; do I have a dead short somewhere or is it possibly a bad switch? The engine starts and runs perfect, engage the PTO and everything runs great, just those indicator lights will not go out and seat kill switch will not shut down engine when I get off the seat. This is draining my battery and winter is coming, witch sucks her in western Pa, LOL
Thanks

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,243]

1/2 of the pto switch powers the ignition when the pto is OFF.

With the pto ON the seat switch powers the ignition when the operator is in the seat.

Disconnect the seat switch wires and see if the engine will run.when the pto is turned ON. If it does suspect the ignition 1/2 of the pto switch is at fault. May be full of dirt and water.

Garry

Adding - The other 1/2 of the pto switch powers the starter circuit.

Edited October 27, 2015 by gwest_ca

[gsummers 236]

Thanks guys for your help. Still haven`t got it fixed yet and I think cold weather is going to shut me down, the horse is in an unheated leanto. I will just have to keep the battery charged and will pull the main fuse when it is in storage until next spring when I can do a tear down and  find the problem.

[953 nut 57,861]

The wiring diagram shows a relay that is operated by the PTO switch, since I don't have a 417 I don't know where it is but suspect it is the culprit. It should be a plug in unit and I would wager that some water got in and has corrupted it. Pull the relay out' dry out the socket and see if the discharge problem goes away. Any good auto parts store should be able to match it up with an automotive relay.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,243]

The wiring diagram shows a relay that is operated by the PTO switch, since I don't have a 417 I don't know where it is but suspect it is the culprit. It should be a plug in unit and I would wager that some water got in and has corrupted it. Pull the relay out' dry out the socket and see if the discharge problem goes away. Any good auto parts store should be able to match it up with an automotive relay.

What year used a relay? I don't see it in the 1986 schematic.

Garry

[953 nut 57,861]

The wiring diagram shows a relay that is operated by the PTO switch, since I don't have a 417 I don't know where it is but suspect it is the culprit. It should be a plug in unit and I would wager that some water got in and has corrupted it. Pull the relay out' dry out the socket and see if the discharge problem goes away. Any good auto parts store should be able to match it up with an automotive relay.

What year used a relay? I don't see it in the 1986 schematic.

Garry 

 As I said I don't own a 417 but was trying to help. What is the device between the ignition switch and battery (location on the diagram) that has normally open and normally closed contacts, I was trying to resolve the hunt for the problem and presumed that component would be a relay. What ever it is it appeared to have a strong potential of being the problem component.
http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/5166-tractor-1986-417-series-wiring-onlypdf/
 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,243]

That is the pto switch but this one is wired so both halves are open and closed at the same time. That configuration is not normally what we see and easily overlooked.

Garry

[953 nut 57,861]

That is the pto switch but this one is wired so both halves are open and closed at the same time. That configuration is not normally what we see and easily overlooked.

Garry

Thanks, do you think that moisture and crud accumulation in there might be the culprit?

[gsummers 236]

Hi all, an update on problem, yesterday I swapped the seat switch and the 2 pto switches from my 312 to the 417, no help, light still is on. I will keep on looking for source of problem. Thanks

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,243]

Hi all, an update on problem, yesterday I swapped the seat switch and the 2 pto switches from my 312 to the 417, no help, light still is on. I will keep on looking for source of problem. Thanks

The tractor operates correctly - right?
It will work without the indicator lights connected. I would remove that panel and clean it up and dry it out. That may be the source of the problem.

Garry

Hi all, an update on problem, yesterday I swapped the seat switch and the 2 pto switches from my 312 to the 417, no help, light still is on. I will keep on looking for source of problem. Thanks

[gsummers 236]

Have not yet tried it with the indicator panel disconnected, that will be the next thing on my list of things, but yes, tractor runs fine the way things are, just draining the battery with that light on.
Thanks for that tip, Greg

[Save Old Iron 1,568]

greg,

some things to look for if you pull the indicator board

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/11631-indicator-lites/#comment-96275

[gsummers 236]

Pulled the indicator after work today, looks brand new, no corrosion anywhere. I am going to leave it unhooked and wait till spring and start a teardown to trace all wires.
Thanks for all your help, Greg