Lead additive or no lead additive

[snowhound 105]

I was recently talking to an old friend that I hadn't seen in many years about my tractors and he said that I should be using a lead additive in anything prior to 1984.  I do have 3 C series that are prior to 84 so should or shouldn't I use a lead additive in them?

Ed

[fireman 1,021]

I use lead additive in all my older tractors. The motors where designed at a time when lead was the norm in gasoline. I remember correctly it had to do with engine temp and valve lubrication. For what it cost for a bottle it sure can't hurt. 

[buckrancher 2,679]

anything older than 1970

Brian

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

The Kohler manuals recommends unleaded in all the K series engines and I don't believe the design changed over the years so this would be their updated recommendations. I don't know about Techs.



The oil is of a much higher grade now days and I don't think the lubrication that was provided by the leaded gas is necessary.

[Tankman 3,518]

Guess we all use unleaded gas but.............there was the day, long ago, lead was added to gas to help lubricate the engine.

I don't use a lead additive but do add on occasion Berrymans or Seafoam to my fuel. Recently started using only non-ethanol gas in all my
engines; 2 and 4 cycle engines. Tired of too many carb issues.

One 16 hp Kohler in my '85 was runnin' not so good. Seafoam down the carb throat and non-ethanol gas fixed the issue in a jiffy! 
I couldn't believe how easy and how well the '85 engine is running, like new.

Same routine for the '90 520-8 Onan. Fixed. Lucky me!

When 1st pouring Seafoam down the carb's throats, smoke like a diesel. Then, like magic, clean exhaust, engines purring. Lucky me!
 

[buckrancher 2,679]

The Kohler manuals recommends unleaded in all the K series engines and I don't believe the design changed over the years so this would be their updated recommendations. I don't know about Techs.



The oil is of a much higher grade now days and I don't think the lubrication that was provided by the leaded gas is necessary.

engines before 1970 that do not have harden valve seats require lead additive which is most early K series

Brian

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Its a fairly well debated topic, but most seem to disagree according to my research.

General consensus is:

• K series engines had a higher grade seat material than competitors from their inception (some say the concept was originally designed to run on white gas, a low octane lead free gas)
• TEL (the lead additive) was never actually as lubricative as they though. There was a campaign (by people that had a stake in TEL) to convince the public that unleaded was bad for engines and that gained enough traction to cause the myths that stand today
• TEL did lower combustion temperatures, so when the temps went up with unleaded some of the cheaper valve seat combinations were having issues. However it seems like the K series had been designed to take the heat.

Anyway, just some food for thought! Edited July 2, 2015 by bmsgaffer
spelling

[buckrancher 2,679]

early K's did not have valve seat inserts they used the cast iron block

Brian

[fireman 1,021]

That's what it was. The lower temps and the valve seats. Was taught that back when I was in automotive school in the early 80s. My teacher back then had worked for General Motors in the 60's and 70's so I don't think he would have steered us wrong in class. 

It up to you decide wether or not to use it. But like I said, for the cheap price of what it cost, it can't hurt to use it in any of your earlier engines. 

Like the old saying goes "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". 

[Pollack Pete 2,273]

Anything I've ever read or heard about using unleaded gas in an older engine is as follows.Unless you're running an engine at full throttle and under a constant load,no damage will result to valves or valve seats.How many of us here run an engine at full throttle and constant load for hours at a time? I know I don't.

[snowhound 105]

Thanks for all of the replies you've given me plenty to think about.  I think I'm going to go with "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

[Wheel-N-It 2,968]

No opinion either way here due to the fact I'm a MMO guy.  Two or two and a half ounces added to five gallons of non-ethanol gasoline is the way to go for me!
 

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

For everyday use I find a combination of MMO and Marine Stai-Bil in my fuel mixed per manufacture recommendations works well. My C-105 always amazes me with how it turns over on the first crank!

I do find it handy though to have a can of Seafoam and a can of spray Seafoam on the shelf for different situatiuons.

[Lagersolut 648]

Same here, I've using a the combination of MMO  ( 1-2 oz per 5 gal ) and Stabil in my  gas for years - after they decided Ethanol was a good addition ( not ) to gasoline,  I've been fortunate to have non Ethanol sources close by .

 

[fireman 1,021]

No opinion either way here due to the fact I'm a MMO guy.  Two or two and a half ounces added to five gallons of non-ethanol gasoline is the way to go for me!

 

Amen to that! Now if I could only get the non-ethanol gas around here I'd be all set. No one carries it. My only option is Sunoco Cam2 at $9.00 a gallon or buy "Tool Fuel".

[sluggo 40]

I would stick to additives other than lead. ESPECIALLY AROUND PRESCHOOLERS.  So if you have kids or grandkids around, go in a different direction and it just isn't worth the risk.

Lead is a neurotoxin and leads to developmental disabilities, trouble in school and  a host of other problems. Microscopic amounts are enough to cause real, permanent damage to young brains.

Just leave the lead alone.

[papaglide 542]

Silly question, but when putting the sea foam down a carb: obviously the motor is running and how much do you put down? Also how do you get it down when the carb is on the side of the engine and not the top?
I want to try this on a couple tractors but am not sure how to do it.

[squonk 41,016]

Get your self a squeeze bottle to squirt it into the carb. How much you use depends on what your trying to do. For general decarbon squirt a little at at time for about an ounce or 2. Then slam another couple ounces to make the engine stall. Let it sit an hour. Come back, start it up and fog the neighborhood for about 15 min.

Edited July 7, 2015 by squonk

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Get your self a squeeze bottle to squirt it into the carb. How much you use depends on what your trying to do. For general decarbon squirt a little at at time for about an ounce or 2. Then slam another couple ounces to make the engine stall. Let it sit an hour. Come back, start it up and fog the neighborhood for about 15 min.

My first experience with seafoam was sucking it into a vacuum line on my 1994 Pontiac Bonneville with @100k miles on it.. Let me tell you, there was not a single living mosquito for 100 miles around after I started that baby back up and drove her 'round the block.  By the time I reached my neighbors house I could see NOTHING out my rear view mirror. Love that stuff.

PS: For tractors and cars alike, CHANGE YOUR OIL afterwards if you do the soak method. By the time I got 'round the block with my Bonne there was thin nasty oil pouring out of every marginal gasket (read: all of them).