416h Ignition Switch, Safety Switch, Fuse???

[BenBen's416 7]

1995 - early model 73420, 416h, P216 - 900+hrs (New owner - 3rd mow)

Tractor just died on me and left me stranded 3 blocks from the house... it just quit exactly like I'd turned the key off. No sputter, no hiccups, no warning lights, just 'off'. Turn the key and there's no power, no lights, no indicators, nothing. My 'thoughts' were ignition switch, blown fuse, safety switch (jumping-starting was futile). When checking fuses, the 25amp fuse came out with a part of the coupling+wire attached... there's more crud, dirt, crap, corrosion than I expected - it's bad! However, I 'think' the fuse 'issue' was a result of me pulling the fuse & not the initial cause of my breakdown. Wish I had taken pics - but the weather/storms came and forced me to out & they are due to return today.

So I'm in a bind lol. My 'plans' are to get through this year, then work on this thing extensively with my son this winter... clean, rewire, maintenance the Onan, etc. I plan(ed) to spend some $ but would like to just get what I need to get me going/thru. So far, I'm ecstatic with the tractor. Got my pulley's, belts, fuel cleaned up, oil... new blades & Burtha was knocking it out great until this happened. Engine sings (sung) to me. Think I'm loosing trans/hydro oil but there's no oil loss/burn with the Onan. And Thanks fellas! When I figure this thing out, it'll be because of all the hard work the jockeys have put in with the extensive database of knowledge here on RS! While I was ready to start kicking a horse yesterday, I stepped away, came here (actually verified what I had been 'thinking') and got a game plan.

Does anyone know/have a cross-reference part # for Toro ignition switch #116338 (according to the parts manual - that's the one I need). Need a Gates# or something other than a NAPA # - but I'll take what I can get. 

What are the better/quicker/serviceable ways to get this thing going? I know I'll have to rig up some new fuses for the (2) that are in the fuse block, they're shot. Also, I've researched for 5hrs on here today plus a few hrs last night & see/learned that the 9-pin is a problem area too... There was at least one snipped line behind the dash, but not the hour meter lol... 
 
 


 

Edited May 26, 2015 by BenBen's416

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,039]

The 116338 ignition switch is for the magneto ignition on Kohler powered 416's

Believe you need switch 111216 which was replaced by 103990. This latest number is well recognized by aftermarket suppliers.

Repost the model number and serial number if you want us to check further.

Garry

[rmaynard 15,434]

Your problem can best be diagnosed with a multimeter or test light. The diagrams found in the electrical demystification guide are an excellent source of help in finding the problem. Your "start" and "spark" circuits can be found on page 7-57. Demystification guide can be downloaded here:

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/10-demystification-guide-1985-2001-492-4509pdf/

Your ignition switch should be a #103990, available from Toro, any Toro parts dealer, or any online garden tractor parts dealer for about $18.00.

 

[BenBen's416 7]

Thank you!!! Locating one now. Looks like Stens #430-512... getting some sealed fuse holders for my fuse block bypass/fix too. 

Thanks for the demystification guide - I'll put it with the parts catalog, manual, hydro manual, other RS threads, etc. that I've printed. All my info is at home (seems like I need to have a 2nd copy here at work lol), along with the serial/model #'s.  

Edited May 26, 2015 by BenBen's416

[BenBen's416 7]

No productive luck... I'm not worried about aesthetics right now, just want it going! (for now)

Removed the fuse block & tied (2) sealed fuse holders in (to replace the fuse block - image 5)

The red wire was free/pulled-out of the 9-pin (already dis/re-connected to my new fuse holder), I jumped it directly to itself & around the 9-pin (as it looks like that link/junction had gotten hot/black - image 4).

Turned the key - now I get a brief/quick flash on the 'Seat Safety Switch' indicator & a 'click' from around my new connections... re-did them, same symptoms/thing.

Tested the ignition switch (and couldn't/didn't get my light probe tester to 'light' on the S post... followed it to the starter, couldn't get a light there either. (image 3)

Cheese & Rice this thing was/is filthy (image 2). The loose wire here I believe to be to the test button. 

Couldn't tell what the splice off of the + was (image 1)

Please help and feel free to talk to me like a 4-yr old. Seems I can't even figure out how to do a credit card payment on RS to become a supporter lol... 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2015 by BenBen's416

[BenBen's416 7]

Original BOS... 
Model: 73421
Serial: 5900122

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

note to self - call stock broker in the morning and buy extra shares of Molex and Packard Terminal.

Please use 30 amp rated fuse holders to rewire. They will be your best assurance of long life in the 416 wiring harness.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Save Old Iron

[BenBen's416 7]

note to self - call stock broker in the morning and buy extra shares of Molex and Packard Terminal.

Please use 30 amp rated fuse holders to rewire. They will be your best assurance of long life in the 416 wiring harness.

​Indeed lmao, and go ahead and get some in 3M too  ... 

Will do, along with some proper connections after I give it the trailer-of-shame ride back to the house. 

[BenBen's416 7]

I've cleaned all the 9-pin, relays, fuses etc, put in a new ignition switch - get nothing. Still just a click & you can 'feel' the relays working when the key is turned.

Finally, I crossed the + post to the small light blue wire post ('signal(?)'/authorization) on the starter - she came to life and made all the way home! Feel better about that, but now I need help figuring out the rest/cause. I've reviewed countless hours on here and it's helped a lot, but reading the wiring diagram is like me trying to prepare a Canadian Tax Return in French... using roman numerals.

Ideas??? By the looks of the diagram - my guess would be the 'start relay'...

Didn't engage the PTO to see if it's that switch. I'm just drained & plan to work on it tomorrow... Direction is appreciated. 

Can someone clue me in to what the wider disconnected wire is? (don't see where/what that would-be/was attached to before/originally) 
 

Edited May 29, 2015 by BenBen's416

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,039]

Here is the wiring diagram I'm looking at
http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/4495-tractor-1995-416-h-wiring-detailed-492-4509pdf/

I did not look it up this time but believe there are 2 identical relays used for 2 different circuits.

The starter relay has 
Dark blue wire
White wire - This is likely the one you are asking about and the reason the starter blue wire is dead. There should be one terminal not used so you have to get it on the correct one.
Black wire
Light blue wire

The seat relay uses all the terminals and has
Orange wire
Dark green wire
Black wire
Yellow wire
Brown wire

If the starter relay already has a white wire the loose one should be the other end and powered by the 30 amp fuse in the fuse box.

Garry

Edited May 29, 2015 by gwest_ca

[BenBen's416 7]

Put the light indicator/tester to the white wire post in the start relay (relay on the right of the fuse block if you are sitting in the seat). Nothing... pulled the splice (above in 'image 1'). Reconnected the wire to + battery post. Got a signal at the relay. FIRED RIGHT UP. 

Thanks for all the other posts/threads in this forum ... feel good. Mowed today & did fine.