Is it too late to paint?

[Butch 194]

I'm getting up the nerve to try my 5 year old paint gun. I was thinking

of trying to paint my tractor outside. We still have some 60 degree days left. Is it to cold for painting? Or should I tun on the heat in the garage and paint in there?

If I were to paint in the garage there would be no ventilation because I would put up plastic sheet curtains to avoid getting paint everywhere. Most of the parts are ready with 2 coast of Por15 rust prev paint and two coats of Por15 Tie Coat primer.

They were both brushed on. This isn't the first time I have used Por15 but it will be the first time I use it for other than chassi painting. I haven't touched the hood and fenders yet. I'm waiting to see how this job turns out before I touch them.

Thanks

Butch

S. Jersey

[linen beige 14]

I know I'm probably going to get ridiculed for this one, but, here goes. I have spayed acrylic enamel in temps as low as 28 degrees (Wife's car that HAD to be back on the road.) with no problems. At such low temps the solvent takes a very long time to evaporate so the film has to be virtually perfect to avoid runs, but it will level out like glass with no orange peel, and any "dry spray" also flows into the film and disappears.

I wouldn't recommend spraying at that low a temp without plenty of prior experience though. If you do opt to spray below say 60 degs or so, use the fastest drying reducer you can find. Spray your film a little thinner or dryer than you might at higher temps to speed drying and reduce runs, adding more coats as needed to build sufficient film thickness.

As for painting inside a closed up garage, unless you have a full coverage body suit and fresh air breathing supply DON'T DO IT! Especially if you are using hardener. The hardener contains Isocyanates that will MESS YOU UP! Not to mention the risk of the paint fumes exploding when the compressor kicks on.

[Butch 194]

Thanks Linen. I guess I'll have to paint outside. What causes orange peel? I can't stand the looks of it. Many new cars have it. When we go to car shows we see a lot of it on some very nice cars. I thought all paints had it and people just spent hours and hours rubbing it out.

[KyBlue 655]

Orange Peel is caused by the paint spray itself. Those are the droplets from the spray gun -

As you spray - when your at the ideal speed, pressure, and distance from the panel, a majority of them level out leaving a fairly flat painted surface, but when you get to far away or move to fast it becomes dry, and rough, and the other side of it, moving to slow, and spraying too heavy, you dont have orange peel - you have Runs!

Orange peel happens to everybody - but proper technique will minimize this..

[linen beige 14]

Orange peel is caused by incompletely atomized paint droplets or the air that is used to spray the paint. Poorly atomized paint droplets don't evenly cover the surface, and the paint dries before the droplets can flow out evenly. This results in a paint film that is actually a series of rounded top paint droplets and the valleys between them. Thinning the paint a little more can reduce this effect. Air pressure can also cause orange peel in thicker paint films. The surface of the film starts to dry almost immediately but the paint below the surface is still wet. The air wrinkles the surface film as it hits it. The film continues to dry and can't level out completely. Thinning the paint film or reducing the air pressure can reduce this effect.

The object is to lay finely atomized droplets of paint on the surface so that all the droplets are overlapping one another just enough that they "melt" together, without laying on top of one another so much that they begin to flow off the surface (run).

This may sound daunting, but with a little practice it isn't really hard to do. Just play with the gun a bit before you spray for real and you should do fine.

[Butch 194]

My problem is I never have the need to paint so I don't get the practice. Plus having a place to do it is also a problem. That 1045 that Brian restored looks really nice for being painted outside by what I could see. But now it has been windy and the leaves are dropping and painting outside seems iffy. Even though we have a few days of 60 degree weather left the nights are cold and you must contend with blowing debris getting on the paint. I wanted this project done by the end of the year but I don't know now. My wife keeps bugging me to get her car back in the garage!! I may use a spray can to do the hidden parts in the garage and wait for nicer weather to paint the hood, fenders and side panels with the gun.

I don't even know how well the gun will even paint. I only paid around $50 for it from Harbor Freight 5 or 6 years ago.

You still see a lot of cars with orange peel at car shows so a lot of them haven't got it right yet. My F-250 has a beautiful looking paint job on it but up close you see the peel. Even those robots don't have it right yet!!

Butch

[KyBlue 655]

Butch where are you located??

You can do it inside the garage, but as Jim said, ventilation is going to be a issue...You can setup several box fans blowing out the garage door, pull the door down ontop of the fans and block the space to the sides with cardboard. The idea is that you want to create air movement, pulling out the bad air, and pulling in good.

You should also look into picking up a respirator, to help filter out the bad chemicals in the paint that cause the damage to ya... they really aint super expensive, and when your done, put it back into the bag, or a ziplock and suck out as much of the air as you can..itll help the filters last a bit longer..

[Butch 194]

Scott I'm in S. Jersey. I have a respirator. I don't know if it's for paint or not. It has replaceable cannistors and I've used it to acid wash our pool. I do have some fans I could use for exhaust. Maybe I will give it a try. I was gonna tack plastic sheets all around the ceiling in one of the car bays to make it's own paint area and put plastic on the floor. I can have an area about 10'x20' of working area and put the fans by the garage door.

Butch

[KyBlue 655]

Well there ya go, the smaller the area, the better the fans will work..You can use a furnace filter in the spot you let the air in, to keep down the dust and other things you dont want in the paint..

That respirator should work - if you can smell paint when ur wearing it...its not working, and probably needs new filters ...

good luck! Rember...we love pictures!

[linen beige 14]

If your garage is not really weather tight then putting a box fan or two under the door and blocking like Scott said will work good for taking out bad air. Good air will come in around the eaves, etc. If it is tight, then opening a window to get cross ventilation is great. You may even want to filter the incoming air. If your respirator has replacable filters you just need the right filters. They should be easy to find.

Enclosing a section of the garage in plastic is not a bad idea, but don't put it on the floor, and hang it as tightly as you can to reduce it's movement. Having plastic flopping around will build up static in the plastic. A thin film of water on the floor will trap any dust that's on it and will keep any paint that settles to the floor from sticking. Water on the floor will also help ground the plastic sheets hanging from floor to ceiling and control the dust attracting static that it will build up. It may sound at first that static in the plastic would help catch any dust and keep it off the paint, but you probably don't want to stay inside the plastic until the paint is dry. Any dust that is on the plastic when you move it aside to leave the area is going to likely wind up on your fresh, wet paint.

[KyBlue 655]

Oh I meant to post this before ... when we painted my 75 a couple years ago, gave it a bit of time to cure and gave it the ole scuff and buff..

Ive never tried it on Enamel but im sure you can always sand/buff the hood and other highly visible panels..

[Butch 194]

My garage has sheetrocked ceiling and walls so I guess I'll have to crack the windows open to get the fresh air. Water on the floor instead of plastic. I can leave the heater outside the plastic and it should stay warm. In the past when working on my cars in the winter and the heater on moisture developed on everything including my tools. I don't know what caused it but i'm assuming it's the cold moist air turning to water from the heater. I don't know how to prevent that. And by what I have read I should go with enamel paint with a hardner and a clear top coat. I dropped off my frame at the welders today and it won't be done until Tuesday so I at least have to wait for it before I can paint. Plus I have to prep the frame. I sandblasted it this week but I'll sandblast it again after the transmission enforcement plate is welded on. And I guess the paint store will tell me what paint and reducer to use. How much paint does it take and how many coats normally?

Butch

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Butch,

I have bought the cheap plastic tarps and hang them on 1x2 nailers on the ceiling.

I also put a big tarp on the floor. I mist everything down with water to keep dust

from ruining the paint job. Small fan in the rear window of the garage (on low).

They make a cheap and effective paintbooth when you don't want paint on anything

in your garage. My brother in law like my idea and uses it in his pole barn.

When your done painting you can just leave up the nailers. Mark the tarps for orientation the next time and it is fast and simple to put back up.

I can take pics if you need a clearer idea.

Most paints recommend you paint at tempuratures above 68 degrees. If it is cooler, I have halogen lights that will heat up my space in the garage. And I keep my paint and clear inside in the warmth until it is time to paint. I also keep the item to be painted warm.

Good luck.

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,362]

Hello,

I just finished spraying my C175 inside a heated garage however I believe that you should be okay if is has a few hours to dry in at least 50 degree weather. My sugggestion is to use the paint from tractor supply and add the hardener. I would spray outside and then move it to the heated garage to dry. good luck..

[linen beige 14]

Mike, Using the heavy plastic tarps sounds like a great idea!

A word of caution about painting outside in cold air and then moving it inside to dry. The cold metal may cause condensation to form on the surface of the wet paint. If it is already tacky, a little surface fog probably won't hurt it, but too much water on wet paint will cause blushing or worse.

[Butch 194]

Teddy da Bear. Thanks. I was considering nailers where I could hang up

and take down the sheets easier.

I'll do all the painting inside. I don't wanna risk dropping parts or debris blowing on the parts while the paint is wet.

I was looking at the Valspar paints from TSC. But I've read where people said there were better paints for not much more in cost. I'd like to get a durable but yet affordable paint. Are any paints easier to apply or more forgiving?

What about orange peel? Do you sand it out or do you use a a rubbing compound with a buffer?

How long between coats? I guess you paint what you can reach and then flip the parts once they are dry. How much paint can I expect to use?

Thanks

Butch

[daemon2525 5]

I was looking at the Valspar paints from TSC. But I've read where people said there were better paints for not much more in cost. I'd like to get a durable but yet affordable paint. Are any paints easier to apply or more forgiving?

Please understand that I am NOT a painter. However, I have recently used 3 different kinds of paint , Valspar implement (not restoration), Krylon implement, and Rustoleum implement. I find that the Rustoleum paint is thicker and less likely to run than the others, with the Krylon being the thinnest.

This allows me to get more coverage per coat than the others. I have to put four coats of Valspar on to get to where I could not see the brown primer showing through.

So my favorite is Rustoleum Implement (matches IH red).

Another thing I noticed is that the Valspar will dry to the touch in an hour or two, and the Rustoleum takes until the next day.

I don't know if being thicker is better or not, like I said, I am not a painter, but I like it better.

I am taking about rattle cans, of course.

[Butch 194]

I'm not a painter either!!! But I would like to give the gun a try since I have one. I am concerned I'll do more damage than good. I do want it to come out pretty decent. I have many hours invested in the prep. All the parts have been sandblasted or bead blasted. Everything has been prepped with Por15. New tires and wheels. I'm also in the process of rebuilding the engine. I also have many new parts for it. But it will be a work tractor and not a trailer queen! It had a busy Fall planned but it won't be done in time. I'd like to try pushing snow with it this Winter but don't know if I'll be done. So now I have a very busy Spring planned for it. It's gonna spend time in the woods so I'm sure it will get scratched and that first one will probably be a killer!!

Butch

[Teddy da Bear 11]

Ok.....this will sound crazy... But for all the fuss and mess created by using a spray gun.... I don't use one. And I restore cars for a living! (I use a spray gun on them though....lol)

I have found a spray can paint that is unbelievably reasonable.....goes on nice and smooth......and is a near dead on match for wheel horse red.

It can be found at Rural King (other stores too I imagine) for a $1.45 a big can! It is called "Touch and Tone" and the color is cherry red.

I am happy with it.....and I am kind of picky....lol

But use what suits you.

Best of luck!

[sorekiwi 761]

Ok.....this will sound crazy... But for all the fuss and mess created by using a spray gun.... I don't use one.

I hear you there.

I'm no painter, so I'm certainly no expert, but it's a lot of screwing around, adding thinner, adding hardner, stirring it all up, leaving it to kick a bit, spray a bit, wait for it to tack, spray a bit etc etc. Then all the clean up at the end, and getting rid of the left over paint and dirty thinner. It all seems so much more work than putting the rattlecan back on the shelf.

And even a small gun is awkward to get in the tight spots (like the inside of a dash tower).

I'm hoping to get my gas tank, hood and beltcover painted this weekend (weather permitting). I'll use a gun mainly because I want to use hardener on the gas tank, and I really want these 3 pieces to match. But the next tractor will probably be a rattlecan job.

$1.45 is unbelievably cheap, I've been using the Valspar restoration series and its about $7 from TSC.

[linen beige 14]

And even a small gun is awkward to get in the tight spots (like the inside of a dash tower).

Have you ever used an airbrush? I use a Pasche brand, type "H" for smaller parts. It can also be used for larger stuff since it can spray a pattern fom razor thin to four-five inches wide. It is more maneuverable than a rattle can and gives incredible control. The finish is also as smooth as wet glass. But you still have the mixing and cleanup issues.

[Butch 194]

Linen funny you should mention that. Years ago I bought a Testers air

brush. I decided to try it out on painting 3 grooves around a set of

dart barrels. I bought one of those small bottles of Testers model

paint. I went through the entire bottle just trying to paint 3 little gooves.

I couldn't even get that right. It was harder than I thought.

Butch

[HorseFixer 2,012]

Air Brushing is an Art, I watch alot of Orange County Choppers And Ole' Nubby Is the man! Boy I wish he was my neighbor, sure would get some nice paintjobs done I have so many Horses to paint im not even looking forward to it! Maybe by the time I get to the last one, I will be doing a nice job I believe in the paint gun method tho, Useing good quality paint with hardner gives a more duarable finish better than factory! The paints they used back years ago do not compare to the finishes they have today.

The best paint job I have ever seen on a horse was Rays 552 Parked next to mine in the Redsquare tent this last summer! All I can say is WoW! There were more people who stopped with their mouths hung open that you could shake a stick at! And for good reason, because Ray spent alot of time on the preperation and purchased good materials! Yeah okay he can work a spray gun fantastic too!

I can appreciate craftmanship, why not do things right the first time if your going to restore a tractor? Take it apart so you can do get the job done right. Anything mehanical should be fixed along the way also before painting.

This is just how I feel, everyone has to make that decision when they get there!

Cheers Duke

[Butch 194]

I haven't watched OCC in months. I know for awhile he had changed a couple of his air brush painters. I don't know why. I never saw a bad paint job from any of them. I also had the impression all his painters were fairly local. It must be nice to have that much talent in such a small area. They can do some amazing work.

[sorekiwi 761]

Is it too late to paint?

Dunno, but if it didnt happen this weekend, it probably wasnt goimg to happen. Here's how I spent part of my day:

It was high 60's this afternoon in my back yard (central Indiana).

Turned out OK, I got a run around the "Wheel Horse" on the hood, and a frikkin' bug right in the middle of the top of the gas tank, but I suppose "if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys...."

Now to wait a couple of weeks for that Valspar to harden up...