Hand primer pump

[Horse46 519]

I'm going to fit a hand primer pump to ease the amout of time the starter has to work to get the old tractor going. 

Where would be best, by the fuel tank, before or after the filter?

I was going to fit the pump just under the tank, and the filter just behind the dash, does that sound about right?

[Anglo Traction 761]

Yep!, it's a good idea to fit one on the later tractors that have the Tank under the seat. It's the little reed valves in the Fuel Pump that have got a bit tired and let the fuel back to the tank. 

Here's a good example of a manual pump-    Kohler In-Line Primer Bulb - 15 222 01-S   ...if you need to buy one here in UK, copy and paste that into a search box.  

As for location, put it where you have access and that the outlet end is inclined to avoid airlocks and dirt settling out, but I imagine it is difficult to purge the very long fuel pipe of air on these models. Maybe someone more knowledgeable on these models will chip in.

.....P.S. .......I take it your sorted with the starter Motor now?.  

[JC 1965 1,532]

I put an electric fuel pump on mine. It starts quickly and runs great. Hope this helps.   

[Racinbob 11,726]

I never thought about doing that. Never had the need but I can see where it could help in some cases. I would think you could go to a marine store and get one there. I have no clue if the price would be better but probably not much.

[Horse46 519]

Yep!, it's a good idea to fit one on the later tractors that have the Tank under the seat. It's the little reed valves in the Fuel Pump that have got a bit tired and let the fuel back to the tank. 

Here's a good example of a manual pump-    Kohler In-Line Primer Bulb - 15 222 01-S   ...if you need to buy one here in UK, copy and paste that into a search box.  

As for location, put it where you have access and that the outlet end is inclined to avoid airlocks and dirt settling out, but I imagine it is difficult to purge the very long fuel pipe of air on these models. Maybe someone more knowledgeable on these models will chip in.

.....P.S. .......I take it your sorted with the starter Motor now?.  

I'm hoping so, i haven't had the chance to go an test it properly, but the indication it gave when I re fitted it is promising.

 

I have found a marine type primer thats looks identical to the kohler one, it has a non return valve in it, so hopefully air shouldn't be a problem once it's primed, and its half the price of the Kohler part, just need to measure the bore b4 ordering.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Horse46

[PaulC 342]

both of my tractors have this hard starting after sitting symptom and for whatever reason I don't really want to go the electric pump route. I like this idea and found a hand primer pump like the one shown above on amazon for about 9 bucks.

 

this got me to thinking though and what about just installing a small in-line check valve?? curious if anyone has tried this before? from what I understand the check valves in our fuel pumps get tired and allow the fuel to leak back to the tank so if we installed an independent one wouldn't we fix our problem?

 

the only real difference here would be the fact you don't have to squeeze the primer bulb so it seems it would be slightly cheaper and a little bit easier?

 

maybe im missing something so hopefully someone can shed some light on this

[Don1977 604]

I have a 312-8 and usually just close the valve under the tank after shutting it down if I am not going to use any more that day.

[doc724 925]

Hmmm, Paul's comments have got me to thinking.  My C141 is difficult to start when it is cold.  Normally not a problem as I do not use it in the winter except this year, I kept it in service to sweep leaves.  I guess I did not think that there was a check valve in the fuel pump.  Could be that my pump is just old and lets the fuel drain back.  Never a problem when it is warm, even if it has not been started for 3-4 weeks.  1-2 seconds of cranking, wait about 5 seconds, crank again and it will start.  Of course I cannot rule out the use of "summer gas" (low volatility gas) still in the tank.  I run premium in all my machines and at the gas stations, I have observed that the change over time for premium gas (summer to winter "high volatility" formula) is later in the year since it is not used as fast as the regular grades. 

[PaulC 342]

I have had this issue since owning my tractor and have often thought about it but the primer bulb and check valve idea never came to mind until this thread.....so thanks Horse46!!

 

Don my line of thinking is the check valve would essentially do what your doing by closing the valve but you wouldn't have to actually do anything.

 

now I will completely agree squeezing a primer bulb a few times or closing and opening the shut off valve are not hard tasks but I personally like the idea of not having to think about or do either and just hop right on like I do now just with less cranking to get them started.

 

doc my starting sequence sounds just like yours and they do start easier or quicker in the summer but most engines will. I notice mainly when theyre cold they crank significantly slower.

 

I am going to try to find a check valve locally and install it to see if it works. if for some reason it doesn't I think I will try the primer bulb then. hopefully Horse46 will have an update soon on his primer bulb install

[Horse46 519]

The primer I'm looking at has a non return valve in it ,so surely this would make a check valve pointless, or is this check valve something else?

[Horse46 519]

It definitely needs something, I fitted an in line fuel filter today and not a drop of fuel was in the line, I thought I might have had some at least, even from gravity, but not a drop!

[PaulC 342]

My thought is to install the check valve instead of the primer bulb. The check valve would open when the motor is running and pulling fuel to the motor then, as soon as you shut it down it would close not allowing the fuel to leak back to the tank. So the next time you go to start the fuel will be right there in the carb and it should fire right up

Edited December 12, 2014 by PaulC

[JackC 617]

Here is a check valve just before the fuel pump on my D-160.  I also use clear fuel line so that I can see if there is fuel in the line and how well the fuel is moving to the carburetor.  I also no longer use fuel with ethanol which is not good for the diaphragms in the older vacuum and mechanical fuel pumps.  I did buy a couple of electric fuel pumps from Amazon for a couple of other tractors.  The pumps are Airtex E8016S Electric Fuel Pumps that pump at about 2 to 4 psi.  I have not installed one yet but I have a hard starting C-81 that should get one this weekend.

 

The electric pumps are probably the best solution if you want quick starts and are not worried about keeping the original pump style.

 

[varosd 1,185]

JackC

That looks like a Boss system!

Better than having give the gas tank "kiss" to get the gas back up the fuel line!

[Horse46 519]

My thought is to install the check valve instead of the primer bulb. The check valve would open when the motor is running and pulling fuel to the motor then, as soon as you shut it down it would close not allowing the fuel to leak back to the tank. So the next time you go to start the fuel will be right there in the carb and it should fire right up

But surely if a non return valve is fitted in the primer that's going to retain the fuel in the same way?

[Forest Road 594]

Been there done that! Both tractors have the setup installed. I used a marine type 1/4" primer bulb and a shutoff valve and inline filters. When I'm done running them the valve gets closed and they run dry.

Both tractors are used at a vacation home. It's not at all uncommon for them to sit for 3-6 months without being used. This has worked extremely well for me. Much quicker starts.

I also purchased $20 solar battery chargers from Northern Tool. It's a must have given my circumstances. No more jump starts!!!

BTW tractors are 314 w Mag 14 and 522xi w Kohler Command 22. Mag has a standard cam driven pump. Command has a vaccum pump.

The 314 will be getting a new engine soon. I'll be adding an electric fuel pump as well. Really looking forward to the convenience of electric.

[953 nut 57,979]

  The 1965 and earlier fuel pumps have a built in primer lever on the bottom of the pump. When it has been sitting for a few days you just give the lever a few pulls and you are primed. They can be found on ebay from time to time. Good luck.

[Ed Kennell 40,501]

The Marine type primer bulb is simply two identical check valves with a squeeze bulb in between. Both check valves allow fuel to  flow from tank to engine only.

[Horse46 519]

The Marine type primer bulb is simply two identical check valves with a squeeze bulb in between. Both check valves allow fuel to  flow from tank to engine only.

So once it is primed, is the need to squeeze the bulb eliminated until the line is run dry ?

[Catmanii 36]

I like the idea of the electric pumps. I don't have one yet, but I see the low pressure pumps on ebay for very little money and am thinking of putting one on my 175. Seems to me rather then adding to the mechanical system it would be simpler to do away with it and just go electric and be done with the check valves and mechanical pump. Turn the switch hear a little buze,when it stops hit the starter.

[mrbill69 0]

Been there done that! Both tractors have the setup installed. I used a marine type 1/4" primer bulb and a shutoff valve and inline filters. When I'm done running them the valve gets closed and they run dry.

Both tractors are used at a vacation home. It's not at all uncommon for them to sit for 3-6 months without being used. This has worked extremely well for me. Much quicker starts.

I also purchased $20 solar battery chargers from Northern Tool. It's a must have given my circumstances. No more jump starts!!!

BTW tractors are 314 w Mag 14 and 522xi w Kohler Command 22. Mag has a standard cam driven pump. Command has a vaccum pump.

The 314 will be getting a new engine soon. I'll be adding an electric fuel pump as well. Really looking forward to the convenience of electric.

Had FP problems on my 312-8. It would take a lot of cranking to get fuel to the carb. I got an aftermarket fuel pump on ebay, (Stens). It was worthless. The arm had obout 1/2 inch of free play before it would move  the diaphragm leaving only about 1/4 inch of stroke left, plus the spring tension didn't hold the arm against the cam. After the seller sent me another one and it ewas just like the first I paid $16 for a low pressure electric one one ebay. I'll never go back, it works great,http://www.ebay.com/itm/201228517213?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Ed Kennell 40,501]

So once it is primed, is the need to squeeze the bulb eliminated until the line is run dry ?

That is correct, Provided there are no leaks in the system between the check valves and the carb.