Dozer/Snow Plow strength question

[chipwitch 73]

I'm making a dozer attachment for my C-125, modeled after the one that attaches at the rear axle.  I live in South Florida, so this is an actual DOZER NOT a SNOW PLOW... lol... Though, with this cold front coming through today, I may have to retract that last statement

 

My question is this, is the rear axle attachment 100% of the structural support?  It seems to me that would really stress that poor little axle attachment bracket if there was any side-to-side movement of the blade.  With the blade angled, especially.  Keep in mind, I'll be using mine for grading.

[Geno 1,929]

I would think it is, it's the only attach point besides the lift.  A lot of people use those for a lot of grading and I haven't heard of any problems. 

[Lane Ranger 10,946]

I would not say the rear hitch used for the snow/dozer blade is 100% of the structural support -it is the main support.  The wheel horse plow tubular steel frame  and the pin attachments in the front of the plow provide support also!    I have a rear hitch now that has a weld bead broken on it  from stress but I just think it was an incomplete weld job!

 

I think the locking arms  with  push pin  keepers is a good improvement that wheel horse made for keeping the plow on the rear hitch (the early  years hitches  did not lock).

 

 

[AMC RULES 37,130]

It was designed as a dirt/snow blade, so...   

I've never heard of a plow mount failing...

but, the trans mount...now that a different story.  

[Wishin4a416 2,191]

Like Craig says, the issue is with the frame where the Transaxle bolts to it. It gets cracked and weak.

[chipwitch 73]

Lane, you're saying there is an attachment point at the front too?  I don't see it in your picture.  Can you point it out to me?

 

Thanks Geno and Craig.  It just seems there should be some side support at the front.  I guess if it's less than 30 degree angle, there isn't that much torque on the rear mount.

[AMC RULES 37,130]

I think, if you're worried about side loading the blade...

best to beef up your trans mount instead.      

[chipwitch 73]

A bracket restricting lateral movement at the front tach-a-maticwould be stronger

... then again... if nobody's ever heard of a problem... then I guess there's no problem

[Lane Ranger 10,946]

I am saying the frame itself is part of the structural integrity.  Look at the old Sears, John Deere and other tractor maker plows.   The Wheel Horse one is a superior design perfected over several different attempts.!

[AMC RULES 37,130]

Original/PO of this tractor told me he abused this tractor for years...

ramming snow, down hill, into a pile...image proves he wasn't lying.   

[psalms83:18 174]

think to that with a heavy load in front of the blade...if the tractor cant push it or has less lateral traction the side angle of the blade will push the tractors sideways before a ton of pressure is directed to the rest of the components. Aka the blade will just push you (the tractor) off sideways... instead of the dirt.... most likely to happen with a lighter weight tractor.

[KC9KAS 4,741]

chipwitch...Some time back, a member on here did make a pin on the front attach-a-matic point that would allow the plow frame to move up & down, but helped keep the side to side movement at a minumun.

I'll see if I can find it.......

 

Here it is.........

Edited November 18, 2014 by KC9KAS

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,033]

This kit was for the 5xi models but could be adapted to the older models I would think.

 

 

Garry

[chipwitch 73]

KC9KAS... that's about what I was thinking.  So?  Then it would seem it IS a problem not having support at the front?

[Geno 1,929]

Maybe, who knows what will break at the front if the original design is changed...  

[KyBlue 655]

Anything will break if you push it hard enough ...

 

You need to get over this looking for weak point trip you're on ... It'll never EVER EVER EVER be bulletproof ... Use the Dang thing, and you will see what needs improvement for your use and your abuse and your habits (i.e. How much you try to push, how hard you ram into piles, etc)

 

Just because I have zero issues pushing snow, dirt, gravel and large neighbors with my blade angled ... doesn't mean that you won't... maybe your neighbors are bigger... 

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Im with KyBlue: The only projects that truly fail are the ones stuck on the drawing board from over engineering.

 

The lateral movement of the blade is not an issue in most cases. It IS an issue if the rear mounting bracket is not centered or is tightened unevenly.

I have done 15 years of damage to a blade on a C-105 (ramming huge piles of frozen snow, spreading/leveling dirt, moving 5 tons of gravel, etc) and the bracket and blade have held up fine.

 

I think you will only get into strength issues if you are making a blade significantly larger than stock (like 56+"). The stabilizer the guy made above was for a  60 or 64" blade.

 

Worth Noting: I am working on a design for a stabilizer for the front attachmatic. However, it is NOT for the strength of the set-up, it is for control. I dance right on the edge of driveways at a decent clip when plowing snow and the dozer frame can flex a little when it loads up. Not a problem unless you are just a few inches away from tearing out a nice swath of a neighbors front yard. I just want to tighten that up to have a little more control.

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

Oh and the Xi's get a stabilizer because they weight almost double what a 520 would, therefore putting a LOT more force into that plow bracket especially if side loaded.

[doc724 925]

The other reason for the stabilizer on the xi blade is that the A-frame on the xi plow is quite a bit longer than a standard plow.  I don't remember the exact difference but it is at least 10 inches, maybe as much as 12 inches.  I have both types, but it is a bit too cold to wander out to the shed to measure both right now.

[chipwitch 73]

Anything will break if you push it hard enough ...

 

You need to get over this looking for weak point trip you're on ... It'll never EVER EVER EVER be bulletproof ... Use the Dang thing, and you will see what needs improvement for your use and your abuse and your habits (i.e. How much you try to push, how hard you ram into piles, etc)

 

Just because I have zero issues pushing snow, dirt, gravel and large neighbors with my blade angled ... doesn't mean that you won't... maybe your neighbors are bigger...

 

I find your comment, ".... looking for weak point trip you're on," to be presumptuous, arrogant and condescending.  You don't know me... certainly not from a few words written in a forum.

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

I just measured both of my plows that are not yet mounted. Even though it was 12 degrees here this morning, snow won't make its way here due to the mountains this early in the season. I'm still in leaf patrol mode after all!

 

The 42" plow for the C-series/300/400 is approximately 63" from the bolt to the crossbar for the rear Attach-A-Matic. On the 5xi 48" plow, it measures 70" from the bolt to the rear crossbar for the rear Attach-A-Matic. However, on the 5xi there is an additional stabilizer arm that attaches to the front Attach-A-Matic. Even though there is only 7" difference in length the 5xi weighs quite a bit more.

 

Onetime I accidentally forgot to attach the front stabilizer arm and there was quite a bit of sway while just driving. It does seem to take additional load off the rear mount.

 

[Geno 1,929]

I find your comment, ".... looking for weak point trip you're on," to be presumptuous, arrogant and condescending.  You don't know me... certainly not from a few words written in a forum.

 

I don't think any of us caught that Chip or read it in that way.  I have a like on the post and so does Wallfish and Brandon.  Please don't think that I meant it as in agreeing with that statement in the way you're seeing it, I'm sure Brandon would agree. 

[bmsgaffer 2,043]

 

Chipwitch, I know where you are coming from as a mechanical engineering type, as I am an engineer too... I don't think he meant to be condescending just as I surely was not!

[chipwitch 73]

I appreciate that Geno.   I actually enjoy the process of engineering MORE than I do having or using the "thing" I'm engineering.  I enjoy it more than I do tractors, Wheel Horse or otherwise.  Anytime I have an opportunity to model something and stress analyze it, I do.  It's "my thing."   Anyone who thinks it's irrational is entitled to such an opinion, but to give it voice is to open oneself up to the same scrutiny from others.  Of course, I would never presume to tell anyone here that their thing, is a waste of time like spending 6 hours polishing some relic lawn tractor, or buying Home Depot shelving to stack tractors up (and a warehouse to put them in).  No, I think it's kind of cool and appreciate all our uniqueness, though it certainly ain't my thing.

 

Please, keep in mind that this is not the first thread I've participated in that this has happened.  I realize this is a Wheel Horse forum and not an engineering forum.  But, I wasn't asking anyone for engineering advice.  I merely wanted clarification that I understood how Wheel Horse had designed their dozer blade.  I've never seen one in person and pictures don't always show every detail.  Just because I couldn't see any side load support in any of the pictures I'd seen, didn't mean there wasn't something I wasn't seeing.

 

I got lots of good input from this thread.  Thanks to all who contributed photos and shared their experiences.

 

[Forest Road 594]

Severely edited

Edited November 19, 2014 by Forest Road