stevebo-(Moderator) 8,330 #126 Posted December 12, 2014 I am so happy I do not have to do this with mine. Keep up the good work!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cstempert 27 #127 Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Ok Brian and Dan. I've slept on it and regarding the welded on gear. I'm guessing now, but the gear wouldn't be welded on from the get go because you can't change the bearing. In a pass car or light truck with torque tube drive ( this trans) the o/p shaft is -6 splined and mates with a u-joint The joint slips on the spline, and a bolt and heavy washer and screw into the female thread in the end of the main shaft. This preloads the bearing inner race against the shoulder on the shaft and prevents fore and aft movement On our app the u joint is removed and a gear is installed in the secondary reduction box. This gear is pretty small and to mount to the main shaft directly from ford would have to have the -6 spline This I'm sure made it week as the root of the gear tooth and top corner of the spline would be a very thin area with two close corners. I bet MANY cracked from shock loads and the farmer fix was to get a replacement standard plain bore gear with a round bore. I sell gears and to get a splined gear like that is not cheap nor available as standard Easiest way to install that is to bore to spline OD and weld it on. Yes WH could have done this too but to make something that unserviceable at that time ... I'm contemplating rebuilding mine still because it's clean and the bearings feel fine. I may though so we should all come up with a plan to rectify this issue Maybe turning down the main shaft spline to round the gear thickness and milling a keyway. Then using a standard gear with key and re-using the bolt/ washer? Need to check depth in under drive box first This would weaken the main shaft, but the gear will be stronger Getting a splined gear is doable but expensive. We could buy 5 to make them cheaper. how many Sr. We got out there? Edited December 12, 2014 by cstempert 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dovetail53 18 #128 Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Cst, this is the gear welded to my tranny. I believe it was done by the Ponds during original assembly. IMO, it looks like Brians may have been disassembled at some time to replace the bearing ??? then re-welded. again, only my opinion. Edited December 12, 2014 by dovetail53 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,679 #129 Posted December 12, 2014 here's all the parts here's what is left of the balls and springs I need to find out what the bore ID is stock on the input shaft and the OD of the output shaft for the caged roller bearing these are very loose fit together Brian 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cstempert 27 #130 Posted December 12, 2014 Cst, this is the gear welded to my tranny. I believe it was done by the Ponds during original assembly. IMO, it looks like Brians may have been disassembled at some time to replace the bearing ??? then re-welded. again, only my opinion. Dan Quite possible it was done that way for WH / Pond. Unusual but possible here's my pinion. What bothers me more is what's controlling fore and aft movement of the mainshaft. The bearing looks to be held between the 2 gear cases by the retaining ring on it, but the splined shaft is a slip fit in the bearing bore. It can go back until the helical cut spline shoulder contacts the bearing and can slide forward toward the synchro rings like brian showed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,679 #131 Posted December 12, 2014 Cst, this is the gear welded to my tranny. I believe it was done by the Ponds during original assembly. IMO, it looks like Brians may have been disassembled at some time to replace the bearing ??? then re-welded. again, only my opinion. I can believe this. I just can'nt get my head around the fact that they did not put a spacer between the gear and bearing to pull the output shaft all the way against the bearing on the inside of the transmission that is just wrong there's around .150 back and forth movement in the output shaft on mine dovetail53 is there in and out movement of the output shaft on your transmission? Brian 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cstempert 27 #132 Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Brian Looks like the earlier style synchros with 2 balls 1 spring and thicker slide gear. Later ones used 1 ball Don't lose the round space on the mainshaft it sets endplay There should be very little end play between counter gear and case I just finished the 3-speed side loader today after discovering wrong parts and defective counter gear thrust washer( too thick ) Got those parts and reassembled it On those the u joint holds everything together Re: spacer. I don't recall having much end play or a spacer. I just assembled everything but need to disassemble to re gasket. Ill be checking then Edited December 12, 2014 by cstempert Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,679 #133 Posted December 12, 2014 I'll go with my gear being rewelded back on I said someone had mine apart before and maybe they changed the bearing sure looks like a bird pooped on it Brian 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cstempert 27 #134 Posted December 12, 2014 I'll go with my gear being rewelded back on I said someone had mine apart before and maybe they changed the bearing sure looks like a bird pooped on it 100_0496.JPG Brian Good news is you can grind it all off. Just a lil work is all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,679 #135 Posted December 12, 2014 I'll put in the bridgeport mill at work and use a carbide endmill 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dovetail53 18 #136 Posted December 12, 2014 I can believe this. I just can'nt get my head around the fact that they did not put a spacer between the gear and bearing to pull the output shaft all the way against the bearing on the inside of the transmission that is just wrong there's around .150 back and forth movement in the output shaft on mine dovetail53 is there in and out movement of the output shaft on your transmission? Brian Brian, I have about 3/16" movement in and out, from the bearing to the final gear on the output shaft. doesn't matter if i'm in neutral or any of the gears. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dovetail53 18 #137 Posted December 13, 2014 here's something interesting.... Brians gear cluster has all beveled gears. mine has beveled and straight. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cstempert 27 #138 Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) here's something interesting.... Brians gear cluster has all beveled gears. mine has beveled and straight. senior trans 001.JPG The earlier three speeds (32-35) had spur cut low and reverse gear. Your mainshaft should have straight splined, later are helical cut Yours is obviously an early one and Brian and I have later 36-39 Edited December 13, 2014 by cstempert Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WheelHorse79 271 #140 Posted December 13, 2014 I read in "Straight from the Horses mouth" that the seniors had Ford model V-8 transmissions. Since they are synchromesh as your pictures show, does that mean they can be shifted "on the fly" like a car? I've never driven a geared tractor with a synchro transmission, must be fun! Just curious... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cstempert 27 #141 Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) I read in "Straight from the Horses mouth" that the seniors had Ford model V-8 transmissions. Since they are synchromesh as your pictures show, does that mean they can be shifted "on the fly" like a car? I've never driven a geared tractor with a synchro transmission, must be fun! Just curious... Theoretically yes. But the steep shifter and fragile under drive make that a risky prospect I have double clutched my 416-8 tho! Edited December 13, 2014 by cstempert Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebo-(Moderator) 8,330 #142 Posted December 13, 2014 I will not try to shift on the fly with my SR. I can and do however shift on the fly with my D250. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,679 #143 Posted December 13, 2014 front bearing cover you can see the seal is damaged brian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeek 2,286 #144 Posted December 13, 2014 MY STEERING WHEEL IS GARBAGE 100_0417.JPG First thing I did was use a tapered 3/4" pipe tap reamer to remove the splines then I made a small fixture and tapered broach guide for a 3/16" broach to cut a new key way 100_0299.JPG100_0298.JPG Brian You lucky dog . . . I can't believe you found an exact match for that wheel Can't wait to see the progress of the project! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cstempert 27 #145 Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Brian and Dan Looking again we each have a different trans Dan your is earliest - straight cut rev/low and straight spline for it ...1932 (B-7061 ) Brian, your has heli cut rev/low gear and 6 spline Heli cut spline for the rev/low which looks to be 1936 only (68-7061A) Mine has a Heli cut 16 spline for rev/low.. 36-39 (68-7061B ) Goes to show beggers can't be choosers when they were building them I'd love to know if the secondary reduction box was a standard item or custom cast for them. I have a 10:1 reduction in my Toro Bullet that bolts to the rear of the T-9 crash-box. That was custom for Toro Edited December 13, 2014 by cstempert Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,679 #146 Posted December 14, 2014 Chis you would happen to know what the pitch and degree angle is on the welded on gear? I want to change mine Brian 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cstempert 27 #147 Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) Chis you would happen to know what the pitch and degree angle is on the welded on gear? I want to change mine Brian Brian I don't off the top of my head I have a pitch gauge I can mail you I guess it's probably 8 or 10 DP but pressure angle is important it could be 14 1/2 ° or 20° Actually if you give me the tooth count face width and as accurate OD as possible I can figure it out from the catalog Edited December 14, 2014 by cstempert Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cstempert 27 #148 Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) Or do the math Search out determining pitch diameter Good news is it looks like a standard gear set From what I remember it was around 2-3"dia and I can see its 16 tooth 14 1/2° pa. 20° pa 16t 6DP = 3.00" od. F= 1.5". 2.0" 16 t 8D.P = 2.25"od. F= 1.25". 1.5" 16t 10DP = 1.8" od. F=. 1.0". 1.25" The above are standard AGMA industrial gear sizes Bores are typically plain bore for machining PA must match mating gear. Edited December 14, 2014 by cstempert Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,679 #149 Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) just showing a picture of the gear removed from the shaft. Work has been slow as I am purchasing transmission parts Brian Edited March 5, 2015 by buckrancher 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,679 #150 Posted March 5, 2015 I mentioned in a earlier post that I had bought the pipe I needed to build a new front axle well here she is also got my e-tank ready to go all I need now is water and washing soda Brian 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
