Commando rear?

[AMC RULES 37,134]

So...on this Commando rear I'm working on, I picked out a leaky axle seal...only to find another that was pushed deeper in the axle tube. 

At this point there is no up/down, left/right play in the axle...I'm wondering if I should try pushing another new seal in on top of the other one, like I found it? 

The seal I picked out was rubber side facing out, shouldn't it be the metal side that faces out towards the axle?   

Edited September 15, 2014 by AMC RULES

[Catmanii 36]

Yep, think you got it right. I would just put another in, Metal side out and go with it. 

[Ed Kennell 38,731]

Craig, Do you have the P/N for that seal ?  I see one is leaking on my Commando 8 .  Think it has 1.125" axles.

[stevasaurus 22,882]

Craig, that picture of your axle looks like it has a worn area just in front of the seal...that would explain why you may have 2 seals trying to stop the leaks.  Is that a 1968 Commando?  If so, that is a #5053 transmission with 1" axles.  Another seal in there is not going to solve your problem if the picture tells the story.  If the axle is bad, both the left and right are the same...wheel Horse # 3904...racinfool40 (Mike) may have one or two if you need them.  The seal for the 1" axle is  TORO # 100863 or SKF # 9815.

 

Ed...if you have 1" axles, use the numbers that I gave Craig.  Your other option is...if you have 1 1/8" axles...Wheel Horse # 100443 or SKF # 11050.  Your axle is either 1" or 1 1/8" diameter...that is all there is.  Hope that helps you guys...

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Yep, mine is the 1-1/8" axle, using the 11050 seal...luckily I picked up three of 'em when I got them...

I tried flipping the hub over, and using it to push a new seal into the tube, on top of the first one.

Unfortunately, I met some resistance...3/4 of the diameter of the seal seated fine, the rest got crushed.  

Cleaned up the axle first with a file, taped over the keyway, lubed up the seal and axle...and was still denied.

What did I do wrong, gotta be a better way?   

[stevasaurus 22,882]

File, tape, lube... very good.  I just usually use a good punch that has a good flat end and tap with a ball peen hammer tapping the seal in like 1/3rds of the circumference once you get it started...tap is the key word here.  Use the punch to work it around.    I never did like using  a tube or a hub...you can't really see what is going on.  Use a punch and get the seal kind of started...you will be able to see where you need to tap it.  Best way to do it. 

Edited September 16, 2014 by stevasaurus

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Wouldn't positioning the rear over on it's side, so I'm tapping down on it from above help too?

[stevasaurus 22,882]

Yes...but if you still have the trans attached to the frame...it works both ways.  I always like being on top.    I lied...I like the bottom also. 

 

Best answer...just like taping in a bearing.  I use a punch (with a good edge)...you can see where you need to tap it and you can see if it is going in straight.

Edited September 16, 2014 by stevasaurus

[AMC RULES 37,134]

      

 

          

[woodchuckfarmer 333]

I always put a little grease on the seal, helps save the rubber from friction.

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Did all that, and then some...

still managed to crush the third, and last one I had on hand last night. 

And yet, more are on the way.     

[Geno 1,929]

Is there enough room in there for the seal with the other one in there? 

[AMC RULES 37,134]

To seat flush within the end of the axle tube...yes there is.

[stevasaurus 22,882]

I hate to ask this Craig, but are you sure that axle is 1 1/8".  No way you should have that much trouble with a seal. 

[CasualObserver 3,408]

I always use a scrap of PVC pipe and a small dead blow hammer for setting seals and have had good luck. Never ruined one yet.

 

PVC pipe keeps everything driving straight and with the dead blow hammer you don't have to it it very hard.

[AMC RULES 37,134]

First few picts...you can see the first seal driven deeper into the axle tube...clearly enough room for another to go in there on top of it. 

Those picts show the axle bore from the top and bottom of the axle...bottom looks like it was boogered up by someone before me. 

Like I said...I taped over the keyway...lubed up the seal and axle, chamfered the edge of the seal with a file, and emory paper...

each time the seal looked like it was seated all the way around, 3/4 of the circumference seats fine...last tap keeps blowing out the side as shown in the last picts. 

Is seriously irritating the crap outta me....just sitting here typing this.  

[JimD 3,345]

Craig, in your next to last pic in your last post the rubber on the seal looks like it is rolled to the inside. It could be that the rubber is jammed into the first seal causing it to be distorted and creating a leak point. With the few seals I've installed over the years the rubber was always rolled to the outside and rode smoothly on the axle surface. I would try one more seal making sure that the rubber does not get rolled toward the first seal and see if that corrects the problem. If it doesn't then it's time to open up the trans, get the diff out, remove the inner seal and put in new bearing to the proper depth then use a new seal. That should take care of the problem.

[stevasaurus 22,882]

Craig, I agree with Jim here.  You already have the trans on the bench...too easy to do it right if one more time does not work.    One thing...if you open it up and change out the bearing or bearings for the axles...mount the new bearings and tap in the seals...when you put the differential back in...for sure the rubber in the seal will be in the right place. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by stevasaurus

[squonk 41,458]

I think the iron edge of the trans case that the o.d. of the seal slides into is messed up enough to catch that seal edge and distort it going in all the way. For all we know the edge may be tapered  and wedging the seal. Don't forget, The axle was leaking and there were 2 seals in there. It's had a hard life. One thing I learned when installing a new part and it's the correct one, and a problem like this keeps happening, The cause is always something stupid that we just don't see. Look at the 2nd pic after the one with the tape measure. That hole doesn't look round anymore to me

Edited September 19, 2014 by squonk

[squonk 41,458]

Her's another thing I thought of     That 2nd seal in there could be fooling you into believing that that axle bearing is good and  tight. I think It should all come apart and be gone thru.

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Could a machine shop clean up that axle bore, making it round again? 

Maybe the fix is just to replace that side of the trans case?   

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Her's another thing I thought of     That 2nd seal in there could be fooling you into believing that that axle bearing is good and  tight. I think It should all come apart and be gone thru.

I've been thinking about that other seal too Mike...    

I'm probably going to find a bunch of slop in that axle once it's removed. 

[woodchuckfarmer 333]

Not much chamfer on the on the trans housing, you could file a little more chamfer on it. That might help

....Wayne

[squonk 41,458]

I've been thinking about that other seal too Mike...    

I'm probably going to find a bunch of slop in that axle once it's removed. 

if that inner seal is shot, that axle may not be quite centered in the bore

[AMC RULES 37,134]

True that Mike...

a closer inspection reveals when driven in the bore, it was deformed also.