Painting noob... tips needed

[Hodge71 664]

This 1996 416 Im restoring as a gift to my Dad is just about ready for paint. I need some help with suggestions as this is my first foray into spraying with a gun. I ordered 2 Harbor Freight cheapies and now Im being told by a so called "pro" that I cant spray primer or clear coat with this gun. I need a gun with interchangeable tips. Also Im looking for a "system" to make sure I dont screw this up. Im nervous about mixing thinner, paint and hardener in the proper poropotions to work with the weather. I will not be painting in a booth. I heard PPG has a pretty good thing going. Please give me some intpu and insight. I want this to look great and last for my Dad

[Geno 1,929]

The tips do mean everything.  If you use a small tip for primer you will have big problems, it will actually try to dry before it hits the metal and not adhere.  I've been painting for 37 years.  Better get your gun in order before you do anything. 

 

Until you get the hang of what paint, primer, clear, etc should look like by the way it runs off of your mixing stick you should use a chart and mixing (measuring) cups. 

[rmaynard 15,417]

I use the same tip on my HF HVLP gun for primer as well as the red enamel.

[rmaynard 15,417]

Also, I use PPG Shop-Line single-stage acrylic enamel or urethane as my top coat. No clear coat needed. The primer that I use is Kustom Shop DTM epoxy. 

 

http://www.tcpglobal.com/KUS-KEP505-QT_2.html?sc=115&category=2396227#.VACGjNKwI3g

[Trouty56 565]

And...if you have ever seen one of Bob's tractors.....top notch paint jobs.....trailer queen quality for sure.....

 

Please take this as a compliment Bob.....

[Hodge71 664]

 

Also, I use PPG Shop-Line single-stage acrylic enamel or urethane as my top coat. No clear coat needed. The primer that I use is Kustom Shop DTM epoxy. 

 

http://www.tcpglobal.com/KUS-KEP505-QT_2.html?sc=115&category=2396227#.VACGjNKwI3g

Bob does this mean its water based? Im nervous already and not sure I can pull off water based. I was told its very much a different process than painting with thinner and hardener. Maybe I should just stick with the Majic from Tractor Supply. I dont have much time to be repainting til I get it right.

[pacer 3,168]

Ewww, stay away from that Magic stuff, takes forever to dry. Since you are a newbie at this spray painting - there is a bit of a learning curve - why not use what the majority of us horse builders use and that is Rustoleum. Its really good, inexpensive stuff, pretty forgiving, a couple great colors (regal red and sunrise red), easily found, wally world, home depot, etc.

 

I also use my HF gun to shoot whatever, I dont even bother with primer except when needed to cover pitting (like hood,fenders) and then I use Rustoleums rusty metal primer (these horses DO get rusty!) I would suggest trying your new skills on pieces that are very visible, trans, frame, axles, etc and try and get a feel for it. Rustoleum will take a little bit of thinner/reducer to flow nicely (heres one of the stickier points) too much will cause to run to easily and to little will cause orange peel... I use plain ole acetone for thinning, I find with its faster evaporation rate, I get a bit faster drying times.

 

If you have to do touch up, do it as soon as you can handle the piece, Rustoleum - and many other paints will crinkle/bubble badly if recoated with out waiting 2-3 weeks.

 

Jump in there and give it a try...

[Hodge71 664]

 

Ewww, stay away from that Magic stuff, takes forever to dry. Since you are a newbie at this spray painting - there is a bit of a learning curve - why not use what the majority of us horse builders use and that is Rustoleum. Its really good, inexpensive stuff, pretty forgiving, a couple great colors (regal red and sunrise red), easily found, wally world, home depot, etc.

 

I also use my HF gun to shoot whatever, I dont even bother with primer except when needed to cover pitting (like hood,fenders) and then I use Rustoleums rusty metal primer (these horses DO get rusty!) I would suggest trying your new skills on pieces that are very visible, trans, frame, axles, etc and try and get a feel for it. Rustoleum will take a little bit of thinner/reducer to flow nicely (heres one of the stickier points) too much will cause to run to easily and to little will cause orange peel... I use plain ole acetone for thinning, I find with its faster evaporation rate, I get a bit faster drying times.

 

If you have to do touch up, do it as soon as you can handle the piece, Rustoleum - and many other paints will crinkle/bubble badly if recoated with out waiting 2-3 weeks.

 

Jump in there and give it a try...

Thanks for the info Pacer but I really want nothing to do with Rustoleum unless I have absolutely no other alternative to choose from. I never had any luck with it. The spraybombs always take forever to dry and I just have a grudge against it honestly. Plus the colors arent close enough for me. Dont think for a second I dont know how to paint at all. I've restored a few tractors but its been with spraybombs and Valspar Restoration Series paints. Far superior to anything in a spraycan. Its ashame the VOC was so high they couldnt comply and sell it. I just want something more durable for my Dad and Ive been told automtives tyle painting is better than spraybombs for durabilty to chips and scratches. I asked about Majic because I help a friend restore an IH 656 last year and we painted it with that. It seems to mix well with the hardener and thinner and dried just fine. Not a whole lot of gloss though so he decided to topcoat it with Rustoleum clear.... Ive heard some good things about the Duplicolor Paint Shop series. I need to more research and practice on some old hoods n parts I have laying around I guess before I even start this process

Edited August 29, 2014 by hodge71

[rmaynard 15,417]

No Jeff, it is not water-based. Acrylic enamel and acrylic urethane are solvent based.

 

Trouty56 - Bob, thanks for the compliment.

[Geno 1,929]

I use the same tip on my HF HVLP gun for primer as well as the red enamel.

What tip are you using Bob?  Is it a 1.8?

[rmaynard 15,417]

The tip on the Harbor Freight HVLP gun is 1.4. That is what I use.

 

And just a note about Majic paint from TSC. If Majic was the only paint available to me, I would let my tractor run naked. I have tried the stuff, and if you think Rustoleum dries slow, Majic is slower yet. I painted the engine block on my 857 with Majic just to keep it from rusting over the winter, and more than 30 days later, I picked it up to move it and my hands were covered with red paint. I stripped it all off and repainted with the PPG acrylic.

[Geno 1,929]

Do you feel like you are getting enough paint through the 1.4?   Do you have to thin the paint a lot or go slow when spraying to get the finish you want with it?

[Hodge71 664]

Thanks Bob for the input. Majic is off the table and I guess I'll be looking toward PPG. I'm sure I can find a dealer around me somewhere that can help me with picking thinner and hardener etc....

Edited August 29, 2014 by hodge71

[rmaynard 15,417]

Do you feel like you are getting enough paint through the 1.4? Do you have to thin the paint a lot or go slow when spraying to get the finish you want with it?

I thin only to the ratio printed on the data sheet. For enamel it's 8 parts paint, 1 part hardener, 1 part thinner. Paint should be applied in several thin coats. 1.4 seems to do fine.

[Geno 1,929]

If it works and looks good there's no reason to change.      I use the 1.3 for base and 1.5 for clearcoat.  Primer, urethane, enamel, etc, I use the 1.8.  I use 3 thin coats then a heavy coat. 

[Hodge71 664]

Now Im really freakin lost......       

[Geno 1,929]

And we haven't even got into air pressure settings yet.     Sorry for the confusion but it is a little more complicated than people think. 

 

According to most manufacturers (I use Devilbiss), Primers and single stage paints are to use the 1.8 tip.  

Air pressure is usually 10-15 pounds (best to have a small regulator on the gun itself).

**Good lighting is essential for a nice job.

Begin the paint spray before you get to the part.

Never, ever, stop the paint spray until you have the fan completely off of the edge or end of the part.

Overlap the fan halfway over the previous pass.

 

I guess those are the important basics.  I was lucky enough to learn from a fantastic painter and teacher after school in the late 70's.  The only tough thing to learn back then for me was spraying heavy metalics in Imron. I painted commercially for many years but gave it up when the mechanic work alone would more than support me, it's much cleaner an easier.    I still have a paint booth but it is full of stuff that I'm trying to get cleared out to paint my Horses. 

[Hodge71 664]

I'm getting closer guys...My next question is on paint. The local dealer (who I trust implicitly) told me that IH-50 is as close to Wheel Horse red as you can get. How do I get this mixed and also the numbers on the paint section here what so the y mean...EG

-----DMR 478 149.4

---- DMR 490 7.0

---- DMR 451 286.6

---- DMR 474 533.4

---- DMR 475 507.8

---- DXR 495 40.0

---- DMR 499 536.4

Im lost again...but Im learning so much thanks to Geno and Bob Maynard

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Hodge,

 

don't concern yourself with the meaning of the numbers

 

they represent the "recipe" for the color you want

 

this info is the color and quantity for each tint in the final mix - how much red, purple, black, etc goes into the can.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Save Old Iron

[Hodge71 664]

 

Hodge,

 

don't concern yourself with the meaning of the numbers

 

they represent the "recipe" for the color you want

 

this info is the color and quantity for each tint in the final mix - how much red, purple, black, etc goes into the can.

So each DMR or DXR prefix followed by the numbers is a specific recipe then or are all those numbers required to get 1 color mixed? For example DMR 499 536.4 is a different color mix than DMR 490 7.0?

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

your supplier may ask you what color primer you want

 

lighter colors (grey, white, biege) will give you a brighter top color

 

black or maroon primer gives a deeper, richer top color

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

 

So each DMR or DXR prefix followed by the numbers is a specific recipe then or are all those numbers required to get 1 color mixed? For example DMR 499 536.4 is a different color mix than DMR 490 7.0?

All those individual codes (tints) are required to produce your final color. Each DMR number indicates the color of tint (499) and the quantity of that particular tint (536.4) mixed into the final container of paint.

 

You also mentioned Duplicolor Shop Series in your first post. I have tested their yellow on a cub cadet and was quite impressed with the finish. Please be aware this product is a "old school" laquer product and is TOTALLY different that the catalyzed poly's others are using. No mixing, no fuss, just pour from the can and spray.

 

Poly's have the shine built in, lacquers have to be hand polished for best gloss. This is more work but the shine on the lacquer products are far superior to poly's (without clearcoat).

 

Lacquers are more brittle than poly's but are EASILY repairable since a new coat of lacquer will melt into the old coat and adhere without any surface preparation.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Save Old Iron

[rmaynard 15,417]

When I ordered paint from my PPG jobber, I specified Wheel Horse red. That is a stock color. The PPG number is 72034. That's all you need. That code can be mixed in their OMNI or Shop-Line series. As stated before, I used a 1.4 tip for both primer and top coat. 

 

Here is my Commando painted with single-stage acrylic urethane.

 

 

 

[Hodge71 664]

When I ordered paint from my PPG jobber, I specified Wheel Horse red. That is a stock color. The PPG number is 72034. That's all you need. That code can be mixed in their OMNI or Shop-Line series. As stated before, I used a 1.4 tip for both primer and top coat. 

 

Here is my Commando painted with single-stage acrylic urethane.

 

IMG_0215.JPG

 

 

Bob that is gorgeous!!! So Theres no clear coat with that system because its a single stage Bob? Is it durable enough for a worker? All Im worried about is scratch and chip resistance.  It looks like what Im after to be honest.. maybe a bit deeper red color but possibly I can achieve that with a dark gray/green or red oxide color primer? I hope to be painting next week after I practice on a spare hood I have here. Guns will be here tomorrow with UPS

[rmaynard 15,417]

Theres no clear coat with that system because its a single stage Bob? Is it durable enough for a worker?

No clear coat with single-stage. It's pretty tough.