Wheel Horse 416H Restoration

[km3h 543]

Well I never would have known about it if you hadn't found the idea and posted it in your thread. that thread of yours should be made into a guide for everyone else to follow when they start on a project like this. It is the most thorough set of step by step instructions on how to do the job right the first time.

Not saying everyone can possibly duplicate what you did, but it certainly gives the rest of something to strive towards. Not everyone has the resources you do. Being able to take something to work and have access to that environment with the tools and such is an asset most of us do not enjoy. Still with a little extra care we can still get amazing results. We just have to work a little harder at it.

[km3h 543]

Well I am now going to cheat a little bit. I have almost all of the parts painted from my 417-A. So I am going to steal some of them and move this project along. I think that if I see the results of this project in a hurry, I will have the desire to start the next project right away. This will mean that I can start assembly in a few days. I have the seat fender and hood already painted and ready to go along with most of the other parts.

Here is a photo of what I have laid out for tomorrow. Can't do any painting as the humidity is off the meter and will be until after Sunday. So I might as well use what I have. The tractor won't know the difference.

I spent most of my time today prepping the parts from the 416 so when I finish this assembly I can finish painting and do the 417.

Edited August 23, 2014 by km3h

[rexman72 210]

those 400 series tractors are great and that's going to be a good restore

[km3h 543]

Hey guys, I am stealing an idea from another post on another forum. Hope they don't come after me. There was a complaint of hard to steer on the Case and Ingersoll tractors, especially after installing a FEL. Some solved it by adding a needle bearing on the steering spindles where they meet the axle. I ordered 2 sets from McMaster-Car, total cost $21.75. Nothing beats a try but a failure. Might have to grind a few hundreds off the top of the axle to make room, but that can't hurt anything. This might be a better fix than the reduction steering and a lot easier to accomplish. Cheaper too.

[km3h 543]

couldn't paint today so I did some other odds and ends. Decided to attack the seat mount. What a mess!

Everything was rusted had to fight every nut and bolt to get them out.

Finally had to use an air hammer to cut rails out of the seat bottom. I tried using an impact driver on the screws but was only able to get one of them out that way. I wasn't going to reuse the seat anyway so nothing was lost but sweat and time.

I actually burned up the motor on my bench grinder while using a wire wheel to clean the paint off rods, hydraulic lines and various metal parts. Probably 20 years old anyway and time to replace it. Off to Harbor freight tomorrow for a new one. Have a bunch of 20% coupons.

Edited August 24, 2014 by km3h

[km3h 543]

I got the thrust bearings from McMaster-Carr yesterday. They are very fast at filling and shipping an order.

 

 

 

Had to try them to see how they would fit.

 

 

Will have to grind .015 inches off the top of the axle in order to get the top washer and cotter pin in. That won't take long and if what I hear is true it will make the steering a lot smoother.

 

 

[Desko 608]

Lookin good got a link to there so I can order some. Thanks

[Geno 1,929]

Looks good Nick, thanks for the pics on how to do it. 

[km3h 543]

Here is the page to McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/120/1169/=tgen3r

 

I ordered Bearing part number 5909K33. I order two different thicknesses of washers because I wasn't sure of the size I wanted. 5909K46 and 5909K59. After looking them over, I believe the thinner one will work just as well as the thicker would. the shaft diameter for the 416 is 3/4 inches and these fit perfectly except for needing to grind a bit off the top of the axle.  

 

the bearing were $3.17 and the washers were $1.15 and $2.70.

Edited August 27, 2014 by km3h

[Geno 1,929]

Thank you. 

[km3h 543]

Today I painted a bunch of small stuff and got the frame and transmission up on jacks on my table. I am going to give it another coat of red before I start the final assembly.

 

 

I also ground down the front axle about .150 so I could use the thrust bearings in the steering spindles. and temporarily mounted them to see how the fit. I think this will make steering a lot easier. Time will tell on that.

 

   

 

I wonder what kind of grease I should use on these bearings. I remember years ago there was a yellow grease that stayed a bit hard and was used on applications like this. Haven't seen any in a long time.

 

[Geno 1,929]

I have only 1 type of grease in the shop, Shaeffer.  Most of my testing on it came from using it on farm equip for customers that never greased anything, there's nothing like it.  It will cost you business though.         http://www.schaefferoil.com/greases.html   This is the one I use because it will withstand pressures up to 500,000 pounds per square inch.  -  http://www.schaefferoil.com/238-supreme-grease.html

[MalMac 1,331]

km3h, I don't want to rain on your parade, but if you are going to put a FEL on that tractor you need to locate some HD spindles. You will bend the regular spindles very easily. As for putting the needle bearings in. It's a good idea. I did that and it did help somewhat. One of my bearings ended up being crushed. The weight was just too much for it. Maybe a bad bearing I don't know. Steering reduction is the way to go. But that can get costly. I am in the process now of converting over my 414 to steering reduction. I have operated tractors with FEL's both ways and I can tell you Steering reduction is the way to go. Those loaders put a lot of wear on the tractors. Like I said I don't want to rain on your parade here, but I would hate to see you ruin all that nice work your doing.

[km3h 543]

I have no intention of putting a loader on the tractor. I only mentioned that I read it was done on some Case Ingersoll tractors with FEL on them with good results. The load rating on these bearings is 2400 lbs for each axle, meaning 4800 lbs total, which far exceeds anything a FEL would carry so I wonder what else caused the heavy wear you talked about. The one drawback I see to this is that the top washer does not extend down to cover the bearing and bottom washer. This would help keep dirt and grit from entering the bearing and possibly prevent wear. I will look around for something to substitute for this at a later date when I have more time.  

 

As for the reduction steering, it has its drawbacks in that it requires a lot of turns to move it in the same radius as the normal steering, and I have heard it complained about for that reason. I have a 520-H that does have reduction steering, but have not driven it as yet. It is not operational at this time which is how I bought it. It will be my next project. 

[MalMac 1,331]

Oh I must have misunderstood you on the FEL. I agree with you on the Steering Reduction. I don't care for it when using it to mow with. Seems to me you have to work yourself twice as hard maneuvering around things. It's great for loader or using the 2 stage and the 60 inch deck. Those bearing your using on the restore should be an improvement over the stock setup.

[km3h 543]

Yes the bearings should help a lot. I will be sure to post the results when I get everything back together.

 

Haven't been out to do any work on this project for the last two days. Did something very stupid that I will be sure never to do again. I was using a wire brush to remove some paint and did not wear safety glasses. wound up with both eyes full of grit. Had to go to the emergency room and sit for five hours. When I did finally see a doctor he was great. He removed six pieces of grit from my eyes. They left tiny spots there which may be holes. I now have to go to my  Ophthalmologist and get a laser treatment to close the holes. I also have to use antibiotic drops for ten days. I have many pairs of safety glasses in the shop. Don't know why I don't use them but I will do so from now on.

 

Today I was able to put the final coat of paint on the frame and transmission. I am very pleased with the results.

 

 

 

 

[Martin 2,132]

the progress is looking good, Nick.

i think most of us have been guilty of not wearing glasses at one time or another. something like you experienced brings us back into line. hope the laser treatment works out ok. 

 

dont do it again, ok?  

[km3h 543]

[ I am sure the treatment will work find. I had cataract surgery several years ago and had to go back for a laser treatment to fix a few spots. In and out and no side effects. Besides my doctor is a young pretty thing and I need an excuse to see her again. 

 

I was going to put the decals on some parts today while I watch the paint dry, but found I had the wrong ones for the dash. I sent an email to terry and he is going to send me the right ones. Mean time I will probably set up the hood and seat pan with the decals I do have.  

 

 

 

I am cheating a bit as I already had these parts stripped, primed and painted before I started this project.

 

 

 

 

 

All I have to do now is start putting things back together and do the decals.

 

I used paint striper to remove the paint down to bare metal and it did a good job.  

Edited August 30, 2014 by km3h

[Martin 2,132]

you are using the 417 hood for the 416?

 

paint looks very nice, by the way.....

Edited August 30, 2014 by Martin

[km3h 543]

They are the same hood, at least they look the same to me, so what is the difference? Now you have me wondering if they are the same3. I am going to have to check them out before I put the decals on.

Edited August 30, 2014 by km3h

[km3h 543]

Just checked the part numbers and they are the same hood. The tractor will not know the difference.

 

Martin, you work in a place where they do powder coating. I was wondering what the cost might normally be if I prepped the hood, frame and fender and then took them to a shop to be powder coated? Any idea? 

[Martin 2,132]

They are the same hood, at least they look the same to me, so what is the difference? Now you have me wondering if they are the same3. I am going to have to check them out before I put the decals on.

 

i don't think the 416 tractors ever came with a louvered hood, I've seen the 417s with them, Mike (sorekiwi) posted a pic of a 312 with one and the 520s had them. i don't think the 516 and 518 tractors had them either, but I've heard the 418 did. confused yet? it really doesn't matter though, its your tractor, put on whatever hood you want.

i know you mentioned you were using some 417 parts to save time and noticed the hood had louvers in it, so i thought id throw it out there......

[Martin 2,132]

Just checked the part numbers and they are the same hood. The tractor will not know the difference.

 

Martin, you work in a place where they do powder coating. I was wondering what the cost might normally be if I prepped the hood, frame and fender and then took them to a shop to be powder coated? Any idea? 

 

cost wise i think you would be up for around $300. but that will vary between coaters and sometimes quite a lot......

 

the thing with powder is its really a direct to metal coating, the seat pan in your pic above would be a lot of work to make that pitting disappear. i have done it on one of my pans, but i put 3 applications of powder primer on it and da sanded with 220 between coats to get it so most of the pitting was gone. once you get a heavy build of powder on it, its hard to coat with the part cold using the normal electrostatic method. i had to preheat the part and paint it at roughly 180-200 deg f to get a good build/finish on it

[Geno 1,929]

You could always sandblast to get rid of the rust, primer it, then use 3M green spot putty.  I still see larger tractors I did that on 20 years ago and still looks good. 

[Martin 2,132]

only if it will handle 400 deg cure temp.....