518xi seems slow

[fatboycowen 30]

Hi, i'm new here. 

 

I went and looked at a nice 518xi today. Very nice gentleman selling it. Sounds like he picked it up less than a year ago and went through it to sell. It has 500 hours.

 

I don't know much about them. But i am learning. 

 

It seems to run fine, but i noticed one issue. It seems slow. At the time, i didn't know how fast it should run, but i researched when i got home. i can't be sure how fast it was, but i'd guess no more than 3mph when in high gear. I didn't verify that i was at full rpm, but it had to be close. 

 

Also, when he showed me how to engage the mower deck, he mentioned that it might stall. It didn't, but it did bog a bit. It was at idle when he engaged it. Is that normal?

 

Oh. Also. The charge light remains on when it's running. He said it still charges, and says he verified with a volt meter, but the light remains on, and he doesn't know why. 

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks, Jon

[wh5208speed 619]

The 518Xi has high/low range and the high range should top out at 7.5mph and low range should be 4.5mph. When you turn an Xi it has what they call "smart steer" and it slows down in the turns and speed back up when you are going straight.

 

When you engage the PTO, you should be running at full throttle.

 

I have a 518Xi that has the charge light that stays on, but still charges like you are describing.

 

Thad (Ohio)

Edited August 12, 2014 by wh5208speed

[Forest Road 594]

I have a 522xi with factory loader. Picked it up 2 years ago with 1100 hours. She's ugly and still going strong.

I found her at a dealer whom assured me they changed all fluids and filters. The "tech" spent 2-3 hours with me going over everything and adjusting a few things. It was slower than any other WH I'd ever been on. But it seemed to be working ok.

Got her home pulled the rear fenders and tunnel found every nut involved in the pedal linkage to be loose. A few nuts had even fallen off. Luckily the bolts couldn't possibly fall out. 2 hours and a tube of loctite later I had a machine running at full speed. The steering linkage was just as loose.

If you grab a hold of the motion control pedal it shouldn't move. If there's 1/2" or more play in it everything is loose.

Good luck!!!

[fatboycowen 30]

I didn't notice a change in speed while turning. Then again, i didn't know to look for it. Could that system be activated permanently, causing it to be slow? I feel like it was even slower in reverse. I think there was a lot of play in the foot pedal. I can't recall how much though. No way in hell it was going 7.4. Now that i think about it, it was quite slow. How often are the hydrostatic units a problem in these? What does it cost to get them rebuilt? I found the factory service manual, and it says if the tractor moves slow, it could be a sign of transmission wear. I appreciate the help so far. Jon

[RMCIII 838]

I didn't notice a change in speed while turning. Then again, i didn't know to look for it. Could that system be activated permanently, causing it to be slow? I feel like it was even slower in reverse. I think there was a lot of play in the foot pedal. I can't recall how much though. No way in hell it was going 7.4. Now that i think about it, it was quite slow. How often are the hydrostatic units a problem in these? What does it cost to get them rebuilt? I found the factory service manual, and it says if the tractor moves slow, it could be a sign of transmission wear. I appreciate the help so far. Jon

 

Only 500hrs, nothing to worry about. As for the speed being slow, the linkage need tightened. You need to lift the rear end up, and re-adjust it is all. Smart steer is only activated when you turn the wheel, no way to permanently have it engauged. If you do decide to purchase it, as I have stated before, the "xi" series is very expensive when it comes to wear items. Not to mention, findinf attachments. There is a tiller listed for $700.00/used, and the seller has every right to ask that. You don't see them - attachments - that often and when you do, they are listed at a premium. 

[doc724 925]

If it goes slow in forward AND reverse, it is likely the linkage is loose as others have suggested.  If it goes slow in forward and feels faster in reverse, the neutral cam is not adjusted properly.  If the cam is 180 degrees from where the manual says, you will not get neutral creep but the forward speed will be bled off and reverse will be faster.  Mine was that way.  Put it where it belonged and voila, back to 7.5 mph in forward!

[fatboycowen 30]

Thanks so much for the replies. This is making me feel much better.

 

No one has mentioned anything about the hydrostatic transmissions themselves. How likely are they to fail? I'm trying to get a sense of the likelyhood of the linkage not being the problem, and needing a hydrostat.

 

What are the symptoms, specifically, of a bad hydro (or weak, or worn out) in this machine?

 

Are they difficult to find? I've been googling like crazy, and can't find anything. Does anyone rebuild them?

 

I'm the type of person that will learn everything about the tractor once i own it. I'll probably end up ripping it apart to see how it ticks. Not affraid to tinker.

[boovuc 1,090]

I sign of a bad hydro is a great degree of speed change from when it is first started and the transmission is cool verses after it is warmed up and the trannie is hot. You will also notice, (on a bad transmission), that it will fail to climb hills after it is warmed up or it will climb them but slows down a lot while doing so. This will keep getting worse until eventually, it isn't usable.

That is a bad transmission and it doesn't sound like that is your problem and as was stated, it only has 500 hours on it!

[fatboycowen 30]

You guys rock. I hope this doesn't become another obsession of mine. I have too many.

[Forest Road 594]

I think there was a lot of play in the foot pedal.

Loose linkage there you have it. At 1100+ hours mine is still going strong. With the loader and ballast there's an additional 700-850 lbs plus me @ 260 on her. Hydro shows no sign of slowing down.

[fatboycowen 30]

I mentioned the problem to the seller. He told me that he worked on it, and found the problem. He said when he disconnected the smart steer, he did something wrong. He hooked it back up and says it works fine now.

 

Does this sound reasonable?

 

Based on what you guys are saying, it might also need linkage adjustment in the foot pedal.

[RMCIII 838]

Possibly. But that is a new one on me. Maybe Rick or John can chime in/. They have owned there's longer than I have owned mine.

 

Forget about the tranny being an issue. It's an Eaton 1100. Unless it looks like it has been beaten on, the tranny will be fine.

 

Rob

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Re-installing the Smart Steer sounds right. It cannot be defeated by just disconnecting it as replacement parts are required. I would go back and look at it again now that he has reconnected it. It is buried under the engine. Two lousy photos due to the rain today  - one on my 518xi and the more accessible on the 523Dxi. It is in the lower center below the driveshaft.

 

My 2000 520xi had problems at onetime with the Eaton 1100 before I bought it and was rebuilt, according to the dealer that I bought it from. Yes, they can go bad. The PO really abused it so I was not surprised to hear that. But the 5xi are extremely well-built tractors! Mine runs fine now and has the most hours on it of my three (849 hrs.) It also was the cheapest (bandit time!) The charge light also is intermittent on with this tractor but still charges. Do you know what year it is? The module is cheaper on the later years, if it bothers you. Toro added that feature just to make it look current with an "idiot light." An ammeter would have been better. The classics never had it; the alternative is they would just die when the battery didn't charge.

 

The stalling out does concern me. Is it running on both cylinders? Any knocking from the engine? I looked at a New Holland GT 18 one time (same tractor, just blue) and it had rod knock plus down on power. The ignition modules are hidden on the engine under the shrouds and the engine must be removed to access them. Simple(?) job but two people or an engine host - and nimble fingers.

 

The 5xi are better tractors that have a few years on them than any garden tractor purchased new today. They were just short of being the size of today's sub-compact. The nearest competitor to them is a Kubota BX (not the BX1850 - problems!) and that would an even better tractor than a 5xi.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[fatboycowen 30]

I plan to look again, even closer, before i buy it.

 

How obvious would it be if it wasn't running on both cylinders?

I watched him start it cold, and it started easily. It seems to idle fine. And it revs up to full throttle quickly.

If it's like any cars i have experienced, it should be easy to tell if it's running on all cylinders.

 

Like i said before, it was idling, and probably only for a few minutes, when he engaged the PTO, and started the mower. It bogged, but didn't stall.

 

Thanks!!!!

[RMCIII 838]

very easy to hear if it is running on 1 cylinder. Would not have idled up as easily also. Mine dies like that also when I engauge the PTO without having enough throttle. I don't like to engauge a WOT, I like to idle it up once the PTO is engauged.

 

Rob

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

fatboy, did you check the fluids? dirty or clean? when I changed my fluid on the rear there is a fitting with screen up under the hood area, not on my phone to post a pic I took. The screen was full of debris, if you change the fluid break open the line and make sure to clean the screen. Best of luck.  Btw,,,,,,,                                       Glenn

[Forest Road 594]

Messing with the smart steer sounds ok. They sold a delete kit just to do that. I considered tracking down one of those kits. Once I got mine running right I forgot about it.

If it runs and feels fine I wouldn't spend much time looking for a problem.

[Challenger 27]

Power Steering on a 5xi:  Be sure to service the Power Steering FILTER/SCREEN.  This is frequently forgotten.

 

Bogging when engaging the PTO:  Some bogging is normal.  (Your description sounds typical).  HOWEVER, if PTO engagement stalls the engine, consider a carb problem.  Dirt?     Fuel condition?

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

You would know if it was only running on one cylinder so rule that out. Does the engine hunt when running? It could just be an adjustment on the governor of the carb. It will bog down a bit when the PTO is engaged. What size mower does it have? Using a 518xi with more than a 48" is pushing it. Could be bad spindles on the mower as well.

 

What year is this 518xi tractor? If it is a 518xi, it does not have power steering so don't look for the filter and screen. If you do buy it, replace all the fluids and spin-on filters (there are two, engine and transmission) to extend the life.

 

The Smart-Steer was because of the Cruise Control that the 520xi and up have. I guess Toro figured that owners would engage the cruise and make a 180 at full speed! This prevents that from happening.

Edited August 12, 2014 by shallowwatersailor

[fatboycowen 30]

Thanks again for all the help so far. I'll be going back this weekend. If all is well, i'll put it on the trailer. It has a 42" deck. It cuts well. How do i check to make sure the deck is OK?

[Snowmobileaddict 403]

_{Have the seller slacken the belt tension on the PTO drive belt and slip that belt off of the deck drive pulley.} 

_{Then you can turn the spindles by hand and listen/feel for any roughness or odd sounds coming from the deck spindles.}

Edited August 13, 2014 by Snowmobileaddict

[fatboycowen 30]

Are the bearings in the spindles replaceable? Or, do you need a new spindle? I can press in bearings, weld in plates to repair rust, etc. No problem.

What kind of money will it cost to refurb the deck, parts wise, roughly, assuming the rust isnt bad?

[fatboycowen 30]

Got it.

 

Got it with a plow too, which i haven't tried mounting.

 

It runs great.  Still something funny going on with the smart steer. It only slows down when turning right (IIRC).

I still don't think it goes 7.5mph in high gear. I'd guess more like 5mph. 

The foot pedal operation is a little strange. When you lift your foot, is it supposed to return to a stop? It seems like it sticks, and i have to push the reverse side to get it to slow down sometimes.

 

I went up hills, and it doesn't seem to slow down, and drives great.

 

Only other thing i can find that might be a problem is the temp gauge.  I ran it for like 10 minutes, driving around the lawn, testing the mower deck, etc.  The temp gauge does move, but it stays in the little orange box on the far left. It doesn't climb up into the middle. Is this normal?  When i was done, i popped the hood. It was plenty hot in there. I don't know how hot they are supposed to feel, but it felt hot to me. So, is something up with the sender? Any ideas?

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 10,920]

Post the tractor's model and serial number when you find them. Should be manuals available.

 

Garry

[doc724 925]

Cowen,

 

Two reasons why you have this behavior.  1) Your smart steer is still not working correctly.  It is stuck to one side and is bleeding off forward speed.  This is the reason why the pedal does not return to neutral.  I installed a disable kit in mine and there was one linkage that I disconnected but could not remove, so I left it to one side.  Well, my wife was using the tractor and she jammed this link and bent the disable stop, thus putting my tractor in the exact situation you now have.  Unfortunately, she did not recognize the impact to the foot pedal neutral position and when she put the tractor into the shed, it kept going, over the wheel stops screwed to the floor and smacked the shed wall.  2) the neutral is still not adjusted correctly. 

 

Also, I think you can get electronic manuals on the Toro site.

 

It looks like your pix is from out on the Mass Pike.  If you were closer, you could take a look at mine