converting a chipper-shreader TROYBUILT CS4210 on a pto

[tech270154 8]

i have a chipper-shreader  TROYBUILT CS4210 with a motor  briggs and stratton   POWERBUILT 10 HP .

right now the engine need a  major rebuilt  or replacement with not many choice of engine .i have a WHEEL HORSE D180 complete with a 3 points an a pto  in a very good condition ,knowning the age of the tractor ,probably 1975.

SO i would like to know if i could use the tractor pto to activate my chipper instead of an engine powered .the actual engine use to run it  @ 3600 rpm . could i use my tractor by making a drive n`shaft to fit on the pto without killing my old engine K482   ,it will probably cut the cost  of  the engine 10 hp .

so i am debating right now all the good and bad points .i did have the suggestion of  two repondants about the speed to activate a chipper  (THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU )

i am only using my chipper for composting  no branches or woods goes in .THANKS for all the suggestions from all of you  .

 

i have a chipper-shreader  TROYBUILT CS4210 with a motor  briggs and stratton   POWERBUILT 10 HP .

right now the engine need a  major rebuilt  or replacement with not many choice of engine .i have a WHEEL HORSE D180 complete with a 3 points an a pto  in a very good condition ,knowning the age of the tractor ,probably 1975.

SO i would like to know if i could use the tractor pto to activate my chipper instead of an engine powered .the actual engine use to run it  @ 3600 rpm . could i use my tractor by making a drive n`shaft to fit on the pto without killing my old engine K482   ,it will probably cut the cost  of  the engine 10 hp .

so i am debating right now all the good and bad points .i did have the suggestion of  two repondants about the speed to activate a chipper  (THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU )

i am only using my chipper for composting  no branches or woods goes in .THANKS for all the suggestions from all of you  .

Edited August 9, 2014 by tech270154

[RMCIII 838]

Easy to do, but the real question is - would the knives and shreader be able to handle that much torque? They do make chippers that run from tractor PTO's but their internal components are much thicker, to withstand the amount of hp/tque. that the tractor will be delivering.

 

Rob

[shallowwatersailor 3,214]

I think what I would do is see if the new HF 8 hp Predator (301 cc) engine would fit. You do mention that there are not a lot of exact replacement engines available. This is direct drive off the engine without a clutch. It might take quite a bit of engineering to make it work.

 

I have a MacKissic 12P that uses a centrifugal clutch to run off of a B&S Intek. When it fills the bottom of the reduction chamber due to operator error , the belt starts smoking and I shut it off. That saves the engine and the chipper. When the engine dies on that, I might look at adapting it to one of the Gravely tractors to cut the expense of another engine to maintain.

 

You may have luck on Kijiji finding something used. I bought my MacKissic used for $400.00 US.

Edited August 8, 2014 by shallowwatersailor

[can whlvr 993]

it could be done,it would be a lot easier on a classic style tractor,you need to be able to hook up the belt to the chipper,thats gonna be the hard thing on a d,then some kind of a frame to temporalilly hook it to the tractor,probally needs to be a quick setup so its not hard to attach,thats why a classic makes it easy,it has the front hitch for the mule drive that the chipper could hang on and the pulley is easy to line up as its right on the side of the motor,might be easyier to get another engine

[shorts 182]

It looks like the chipper wheel is directly mounted on the crankshaft of the engine, not like the pto or belt drive chipper/shredders that are mounted on a shaft with bearings on each end to support the chipper shaft/wheel and drive coupling.

[Lagersolut 723]

cs4210 chipper shreader.PNG

 

i have a chipper-shreader  TROYBUILT CS4210 with a motor  briggs and stratton   POWERBUILT 10 HP .

right now the engine need a  major rebuilt  or replacement with not many choice of engine .i have a WHEEL HORSE D180 complete with a 3 points an a pto  in a very good condition ,knowning the age of the tractor ,probably 1975.

SO i would like to know if i could use the tractor pto to activate my chipper instead of an engine powered .the actual engine use to run it  @ 3600 rpm . could i use my tractor by making a drive n`shaft to fit on the pto without killing my old engine K482   ,it will probably cut the cost  of  the engine 10 hp .

so i am debating right now all the good and bad points .i did have the suggestion of  two repondants about the speed to activate a chipper  (THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU )

i am only using my chipper for composting  no branches or woods goes in .THANKS for all the suggestions from all of you  .

 

I'm curious what's wrong with the engine ?

 

I have 2 Craftsman chippers , an older '80's 4 hp and a newer 10hp - long story short I got both of them really cheap - both had the same problem - leaking oil in the impeller housing - it's an inexpensive fix ( backside crankcase oil seal )  - the newer one like yours was manufactured by MTD - my newer one has  the exact engine as yours in the pic .

 

If it's leaking crankcase oil and shutting off ( your engine is equipped with low oil shut off sensor ) your back oil seal is out , hooking it up to a tractor PTO will be a major task- the impeller - brush blade - chipper knives and flails are all bolted to,  and supported by the engine itself , in addition if this unit is like mine , you will find the ( unlike my older 4 hp ) crank on the impeller end a tapered non-keyed shaft .

[tech270154 8]

I'm curious what's wrong with the engine ?

 

I have 2 Craftsman chippers , an older '80's 4 hp and a newer 10hp - long story short I got both of them really cheap - both had the same problem - leaking oil in the impeller housing - it's an inexpensive fix ( backside crankcase oil seal )  - the newer one like yours was manufactured by MTD - my newer one has  the exact engine as yours in the pic .

 

If it's leaking crankcase oil and shutting off ( your engine is equipped with low oil shut off sensor ) your back oil seal is out , hooking it up to a tractor PTO will be a major task- the impeller - brush blade - chipper knives and flails are all bolted to,  and supported by the engine itself , in addition if this unit is like mine , you will find the ( unlike my older 4 hp ) crank on the impeller end a tapered non-keyed shaft .

thanks LAGERSOLUT  to read my story .

first i bought that chipper that you see on picture just above around 6  years ago and i did put  around 150 hours on it ,i use it only for gardening ,no  trees or brushes 

so the engine discribe above  never  worked  hard  . i paid that $1400.00  new .

 

i own  quite  a few equipments and i always take care of them very well . it seam like a engine inside  that run without oil to see  the damage  ,but it is not the case.,.to what myself and friend could see is obvious .worn out rings,connecting rod , crank ,ect  . around $450.00 parts  and reboring the block for oversizing  . i use to thrust in  BRIGGS before but .... i don`t want to spend that much .

to what did trigger all that  we think is  premature wear on crankshaft end play  0..0124 inch.   ,way to big   i doubt  of a final good result  for the price 

any good idea, we are  trying  new drive shaft on  the w/h  D180

 

THANKS  YVES

thanks LAGERSOLUT  to read my story .

first i bought that chipper that you see on picture just above around 6  years ago and i did put  around 150 hours on it ,i use it only for gardening ,no  trees or brushes 

so the engine discribe above  never  worked  hard  . i paid that $1400.00  new .

 

i own  quite  a few equipments and i always take care of them very well . it seam like a engine inside  that run without oil to see  the damage  ,but it is not the case.,.to what myself and friend could see is obvious .worn out rings,connecting rod , crank ,ect  . around $450.00 parts  and reboring the block for oversizing  . i use to thrust in  BRIGGS before but .... i don`t want to spend that much .

to what did trigger all that  we think is  premature wear on crankshaft end play  0..0124 inch.   ,way to big   i doubt  of a final good result  for the price 

any good idea, we are  trying  new drive shaft on  the w/h  D180

 

THANKS  YVES

[tommyg 154]

This same question has been floating around in my head for a long time now. It ought to be possible, but like someone else mentioned, that Troy Bilt might not withstand the torque put out by the 18 hp of the d180. Would be really interested in seeing what you come up with though if you ever give it a shot.

[Austin860 82]

Looks to me if you re route the exit chute, you could pretty much make the chipper a 3pt attachment and run a drive shaft strait from the d series pto to the chipper. It will need a little modification, but I'm sure

You could do it

[Geno 1,929]

If torque or chipper damage is a question is there anywhere in the PTO that you can put a weaker shear bolt? 

[Ed Kennell 40,476]

I have one of these chippers also that I have considered powering with the PTO one of my tractors.  The chipper knives are mounted directly to the crankshaft.

I am thinking removing the recoil starter and installing a Vee pulley.  What would I need to remove from the engine to safely use it as a bearing block?

[tech270154 8]

If torque or chipper damage is a question is there anywhere in the PTO that you can put a weaker shear bolt? 

THANKS  GENO, i don`,t think putting a shear bolt on the 3 points would be an easy task

[tech270154 8]

I have one of these chippers also that I have considered powering with the PTO one of my tractors.  The chipper knives are mounted directly to the crankshaft.

I am thinking removing the recoil starter and installing a Vee pulley.  What would I need to remove from the engine to safely use it as a bearing block?

HI EKENNELL

we are sharing the same project.like you said, i  will remove the casings of the recoil starter ,the flywheel probably ,the whole piston set up , at the end the engine will be acting like an intermediate between my D-180 - K 482  PTO and the chipper,and the crankshaft will be like drive shaft only  bathing in a oil bath .  The reason i am using the front of the  engine of the d-180  is because i need the right rotation,by doing  the opposite ( back pto )would be the wrong direction of the chipper .on flywheel side the thread crankshaft will be extended with an arbour 3/4  x -----  inch with a keyway to receive a square key and a pulley driven by a v-belt heavy duty over the clutch  pto  .( for sizing  go on this site for the proper size http://www.blocklayer.com/pulley-belteng.aspx  )   i will probably use an idler pulley to keep the proper belt tension     ,good luck too

YVES

[Ed Kennell 40,476]

Yep, that's what I was thinking Yves.        But I have to admit, the chipper project is pretty far down on my to do list.

[shallowwatersailor 3,214]

Surfing another forum for ideas about my chipper, I found this Troy-Bilt chipper reworked into a PTO driven model. I'm not sure which model it is.

 

Here is the build thread: http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=221992

[WH nut 553]

What are you guys going to use to lube the crank if you leave it in?

[Ed Kennell 40,476]

30wt  oil....same as a running engine.

[WH nut 553]

So you are going to leave the crankcase intact just pull the piston and rod?

[RMCIII 838]

I tend to lean in favor of "nut" on this one.... I'd increase the crank case oil to at least a 50wt. You are going to take and make it direct drive. Currently it has a clutch that allows for some slippage when the load is reached.... 30wt. can handle that. But making it direct drive you are increasing the amount of heat that will build up on a constant turning PtO driven crank case.... I have never seen any PTO driven attachments or other wise that did not have at least a 50wt. oil in the case.............  

 

Rob

[Ed Kennell 40,476]

That's what I was thinking NUT, but  also pull the valves to decrease friction.

 

Actually my chipper does not have a clutch Rob.  The knives are mounted directly to the crankshaft, but I agree I could use heavier oil if the piston , rod, and valves don't need lubrication.

[WH nut 553]

Are you going to leave the flywheel on for cooling?

 

 Thinking about this, I doubt your block has a bearing on the flywheel side so I doubt it will handle the load needed to tighten the belt. I would suggest running an aux jack shaft to run the belt from the PTO and a gear and sprocket set up fro aux shaft to crankshaft.

Edited September 3, 2014 by WH nut

[tech270154 8]

Surfing another forum for ideas about my chipper, I found this Troy-Bilt chipper reworked into a PTO driven model. I'm not sure which model it is.

TroyBilt Chipper PTO.jpg

 

Here is the build thread: http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=221992

HI SHALLOWWATERSAILOR,

thanks for the picture ,.it is basically  what i am getting set up to built ,thanks for the picture.we have different engine model but we are getting the same result .

i see ,they put the chipper on a hill of gravel,to make the same level as the tractor,it is an idea .if one day they have a chance to put their hand on a pair of wheels with a bigger diameter,they will have the same height  equal,and they could move the chipper around .

Edited September 4, 2014 by tech270154

[tech270154 8]

Are you going to leave the flywheel on for cooling?

 

 Thinking about this, I doubt your block has a bearing on the flywheel side so I doubt it will handle the load needed to tighten the belt. I would suggest running an aux jack shaft to run the belt from the PTO and a gear and sprocket set up fr end of the crao aux shaft to crankshaft.

WH NUT I LIKE YOUR COMMENT,YOUR RIGHT,the model i have, has  seal bushing at each of the crank .the shaft that is connected to the flywheel side will be sitting on a pillow block 3/4 diameter raising at 4 inches,to protect the strength  on at bushing,

i decide   to keep the flywheel to regularize the inertia on the crank,the crank should not over heat ,he is just ``an intermediate``  bathing in cool oil between the chipper and the tractor .

remember  i use this chipper-shredder only for leaves and fast garden composting,no woods .

yves

Edited September 5, 2014 by tech270154

[WH nut 553]

That should work

[Ed Kennell 40,476]

This project finally came to the top of my list when I saw the amount of blackberry vines I need to dispose of this fall.

I stripped the non running engine down including valve removal.  I left the piston in.
Added a Vee pulley to the flywheel.    Some wheel chocks and spacers to tighten the belt. 
I know the chipper is turning in reverse....I have put a reverse twist in the belt, and the initial test seems OK. 
Some concerns are the small size of the flywheel key. I have replaced the aluminum shear key with a steel key.
The radial loading on the pulley end may be a problem....time will tell.  Keep in mind this chipper is for vines, weeds, and leaves.  No wood.