Wheel Horse 607 3 speed will not stay in third gear

[bunson70 51]

I have a 1967, 607 Wheel horse tractor with a three speed transmission. It will not stay in third gear on it's own. If I am holding it in the third gear, it will stay. If I am pulling something, it will not stay in place. I have a 1968 Commando 8 that is pretty much identical. I am in need of a repair manual, and, or advice. I am not able to get on here very often. If someone could point me to a place on here that would be great! I also remember someone selling decal kits for the Wheel Horses. Is that person still selling the decal kits? Thank you very much in advance!!!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,026]

Your transmission should be a model 5053

 

Transmission service manual

Low resolution 3.35MB

 

High resolution 15.66MB

 

Garry

[Racinbob 11,030]

It's likely a problem that is all too common. Your Hi/2nd gear and possibly the input shaft gear are worn. Garry pointed you to the manuals and there's a ton of great info on this site including videos. You gonna have to open the transmission up but I'd suggest that you soak in some information first and watch the videos. It's really not difficult if you know how to hold a wrench. Let folks here know what you find and you'll have a lot of help from the great folks here.

[pfrederi 17,635]

Your Second/High gear probably looks something like this.  It is part# 3523 NLA from Toro.  I just got 2 from racinfool40 (Mike) here.  The design is a bit lacking here there is really not much tooth to tooth surface area and over the years a bit of gear grinding and wear and you will have issues. The inside teeth get worn away.

Edited July 7, 2014 by pfrederi

[Racinbob 11,030]

i agree with Paul except I wouldn't have been so nice by saying the design was a 'bit lacking' . Here's a shot of a NOS 3523 gear next to what I took out. You can see that the ends of the inner teeth are begging to be ground off. I had a problem with mine that I don't know if it was common or not. The ball detents were such that it would allow me to over ride the detent when it was in 3rd gear but it would 'pop' back to the detent when I released the shifter. That caused it to disengage the gear from the input gear close to halfway. Obviously that compounded the issue. A bent shifter fork could have caused it but not in my case. Once I resolved that issue it may have been possible that the original 3523 gear would have worked just fine. Don't know for sure but I had already bought the NOS gear so I used it. Mike and Steve would know better if the old one would have been fine for my tractor since it's not going to be a worker.

[stevasaurus 22,683]

Bob, I would say that your spare #3523 gear would be Ok in a horse that is not a worker.  I think it would pop out under a load like moving snow.    Don't throw it away.

[Racinbob 11,030]

That's kinda what I thought Steve. I've actually got two that are in about this condition. It's hard to tell in the picture but the inside half of the inner teeth look like they've had very little use which, to me, indicates the problem when I was only getting half engagement on the input gear. Now that you've got me better educated on these things I wouldn't have spent the bucks on the NOS gear considering the use the Suburban will see. But I gotta admit, it's a good feeling to have the new one in there and everything working great. It's sitting on a cart in the garage and I find myself shifting the gears when I walk past it sometimes.   In spite of the new gear I promise, no snow pushing for this one Looking forward to hearing back from bunson70 to see how his goes.

[KATO 115]

Here's a link to Terry's site (vinyl guy). at the bottom of my post.

he sells the decals you need

[bunson70 51]

Hey guys, I appreciate the help. I am in the process of removing the pin that holds the sleeve hitch (the pivoting hitch) in place. I started by, using a hacksaw to cut the pin off of both sides of the tranny. I was able to get what was left of the pin out of the sleeve hitch pretty easy. The pin is rusted onto the tranny case. Bummer!  I then drilled the pin, using small drill bits. Then going progressively larger until I got to the half inch drill bit. Now, I have been using chisels to chip away at what is left of the pin. Slowly but surely, it is working. Paitence is a virtue! I will post some pictures of the progress soon. Once again, I really thank you for the help.  Stevasaurus was saying the gear would be ok if the Horse is not a worker. I use my Commando 8 all the time for the heavy work. I have an STR 324 snowblower and the dozer blade that came with the Commando 8 when I bought it from a friend of mine. I am in the process of restoring the 607. I would like to be able to use it (Not hard use. Just light work.) Will that gear be okay? Thanks again!!

[Racinbob 11,030]

As I mentioned, I wouldn't have spent the bucks for a NOS gear had I known then what I do now. My Suburban won't see any work other than just riding around. I had another issue that was causing the 3523 gear to only engage the input gear partially. I was told the used gear would probably be fine with a non worker but I went ahead and bought the new gear. I should have listened. Now I believe the old gear would have been fine for my use now that the engagement problem is resolved. Maybe not a hard worker. But....if you look at the NOS gear closely the outer edges of the inner teeth aren't going to hold up to much hard use. Bad design. One of the many things I learned in my transmission rebuild is that a firm FULL engagement of the 3rd/2nd (3523) gear with the input gear is imperative. In my case it was an issue with the shift rail detents lining up properly with the engagement. I hope that makes sense. Anyways, once you get the case apart and see what you have post pics and the help will pour in. Remember, penetrating oil is your friend with getting that shaft out. Then there's the hubs.....

[stevasaurus 22,683]

bunson, Bob's gear may be OK for you...let's match it with pictures of yours once you open the trans.  This situation only affects 3rd gear, not 1st or 2nd or reverse.  I doubt you use 3rd gear to blow snow...I know you use 3rd gear to push it with a blade.  Where in Wisconsin are you...you may be close to some other trannys or parts if you need them.  Please take and post pictures of the inside of the trans when you get her opened up. We love pictures and they really help to see what you got...

[bunson70 51]

 

Hey guys, I am still chipping away at the pin in the transmission. It is a slow process. I DO have some pictures though!! I downloaded and printed the tranny manual. It looks pretty straight forward. In fact, it  will most likely take less time to tear down and repair, than the stupid stuck pin. I would buy some stock in PB Blaster. It is a friend!!

Edited July 19, 2014 by bunson70

[stevasaurus 22,683]

Here is a link to a thread with pictures and videos.  The only difference between this trans and yours is the brake shaft comes out a different hole...yours is on the large mushroom gear, the brake shaft is on the cluster gear shaft in this trans.  Hope it helps you if you have any problems or questions. 

 

[bunson70 51]

Thank you Stevasaurus, I will be watching them again when I get my cases apart.

[bunson70 51]

Hey everyone! I broke down and had the local machine shop drill out the hitch pin this past Wednesday. Money well spent! I have the circlip off of the brake hub. How do I get the hub off? Is it pressed on? I tried prying on it a little. I didn't want to get too crazy. Also, the brake band is a wee bit worn out. Surprising huh???   Is the a replacement for it? Thank you again!

[stevasaurus 22,683]

I have had luck with a 2 foot pry bar...tapping it down from behind to loosen the drum.(tapping is the key word here).   A wheel puller would work also.  It is held on by a "C" clip and has a wood ruff key on the shaft.  It is not pressed on.  Take a file and file any burrs off the end of the shaft.  You do know we love pictures...they would help us a lot. 

[bunson70 51]

Cool man!!! I will keep plugging away at it. I will get back before ten months go by like my last post. I will get some pictures of the progress soon. Thank you again, stevasaurus!!

Edited May 4, 2015 by bunson70

[Racinbob 11,030]

Glad to see that you're still on this. The brake linings are available from Bob's Wheel Horse Brake linings and More. He's in the vendor section here.

[bunson70 51]

Thanks for the heads up Racinbob! Before I went to work this morning, I took the advice from stevasaurus, and I was able to get the hub just about flush with the shaft. I will use the gear puller tomorrow morning to pull it all the way off. I would have taken it off this morning, but I had to do the work thing. I am getting super pumped about getting back into this restoration!!! My dad and me have been keeping the Commando 8 busy in the mean time.

[bunson70 51]

Here is the progress so far. It's coming along fairly well I think. Does the gear look like it's bad? Thanks!!

[bunson70 51]

Here are some more pictures. The other gear looks like it is worn on the edges, or is it just me?

[bunson70 51]

And lastly, is this gear looking okay?

[stevasaurus 22,683]

Your 2nd/3rd fork gear is now a very cool paper weight.  If you have not got a replacement for that gear, I would replace the other fork gear also (much easier to find).  The wear on the outside of both of those fork gears is from not coming to complete stop before shifting.  How does your cluster gear look??  I can see it in one picture and it looks OK, but it is hard to tell.  I think you will be OK with your input shaft gear, but I would replace that also if a better one was there. 

 

BTW...I can't believe you took that trans apart in the horizontal position.      Crackin' me up. You really need to watch the videos in this thread. 

 

 

BTW...very nice pictures...thank you. 

[bunson70 51]

Yeah, sometimes I'm an outlaw, doing things my own way. We have this tiny little vise on the work bench. I didn't want to trust it holding the tranny up. It is just about four feet to the concrete floor, but I am sure there would be some damage if it fell. Okay, now am I right that the 2nd/3rd fork gear is the NOs #3523 that was pictured earlier? I only have about five minutes of driving on this tractor. All the wear and tear came from previous owners. I do have the tranny manual printed out. Which gear is the cluster gear, and which one of the gears is the  other fork gear in these pictures? Do you have part numbers for the ones needing replacement. I don't mind the criticism, it gives us character. Also, is there a way to post videos on this forum? Thanks again!!

Now my collection of costly paper weights is almost complete!! Hahaha!!!!

[bunson70 51]

I just looked at the tranny manual. I can get some more pics of the cluster gear later.