Hi-Lo shifter on 8-speed has too much travel

[DuchApl 13]

I couple years ago I bought a C-100 for parts. So this year I decided to re-acquire all the parts I put on the first c-100  and make a  Frankenstein c-100.

 

Anyway-  before I started anything, I tested out the tranny running it off the PTO from the other tractor. Everything looked fine - all gears worked, pretty smooth shifting. So, I go to put it all back together and  find that the left to right travel on the Hi-Lo shifter is much too long once it's installed. Trying to shift into high or low is now restricted by the width of the tunnel, not to mention when the shift pattern plate is installed.

 

Before I go crackin' this thing open, is there any adjustment that can be made externally? What might cause this - and am I doomed to putting a fork in it?

 

Thanks in advance,

Pete

[Desko 610]

No adjustment you will have to split the case to replace the fork. What might of caused this is going from high to low on the fly

[stevasaurus 22,841]

Desko is correct...there is no adjustment...it is internal.  Does it work with it back together??  If not...it will require a split of the trans...parts are available.  Did you check to make sure that the slack is not in the shifter??

[DuchApl 13]

Thanks guys. There doesn't seem to be any slack in the shifter connection. I'm getting to the re-assembly and the shifter is restricted by the tunnel and you can tell it's not locking into gear. If I was paying attention when I had it stand- alone I would have noticed the hi - lo shifter is at least a inch or more outside the case of the trans.

[stevasaurus 22,841]

There is a few threads on this site that show how the hi/low mechanism works and what is involved to fix it.  I will throw up the links if you need them and can't find them. 

[DuchApl 13]

 

OK, I cracked it open. Probably going to wish I hadn't - but frankly, this isn't all as complicated as I feared.   - This is the reverse idler gear - does it look a bit chewed up to you guys? There are some pretty sharp edges on the top; just looks a little worse for the wear.

[groundhog47 347]

  It's a bit gnawed but is supposed to be beveled anyway. You could prob dress the teeth    smoother and get a pass on changing out. I'm curious if maybe detent ball may be missing or undersized in Hi-Lo shift "tube". Seems as if that would allow over travel, but am sure you would notice lack of detent lock when moving L-R.

[DuchApl 13]

  It's a bit gnawed but is supposed to be beveled anyway. You could prob dress the teeth    smoother and get a pass on changing out. I'm curious if maybe detent ball may be missing or undersized in Hi-Lo shift "tube". Seems as if that would allow over travel, but am sure you would notice lack of detent lock when moving L-R.

Thanks, Gerry. I have the Hi-Lo  fork out and there seems to be a rather positive click when I move it up and down manually. I have new detent balls and springs on order, so if they are out of spec, that should cure it. The "L" -shaped shifter connection looks good too - I actually thought the slot might be deformed wider making a longer travel, but it seems ok. Then again, it wouldn't take much, I guess. The only other thing I can think of is the hi/lo shifter fork wasn't seated all the way down, but that really doesn't make much sense.  I'm also going to retrace my steps and go back to Steve's suggestion that the slack may be in the shifter itself - outer holes may be larger than the shaft holes. I'll let you know what I find.

[groundhog47 347]

 

Thanks, Gerry. I have the Hi-Lo  fork out and there seems to be a rather positive click when I move it up and down manually. I have new detent balls and springs on order, so if they are out of spec, that should cure it. The "L" -shaped shifter connection looks good too - I actually thought the slot might be deformed wider making a longer travel, but it seems ok. Then again, it wouldn't take much, I guess. The only other thing I can think of is the hi/lo shifter fork wasn't seated all the way down, but that really doesn't make much sense.  I'm also going to retrace my steps and go back to Steve's suggestion that the slack may be in the shifter itself - outer holes may be larger than the shaft holes. I'll let you know what I find.

Sounds like you have all bases covered, that is a curious situation though.  Hope you geter solved. Every time we list a problem and it becomes solved we all benefit from the discovery!

[stevasaurus 22,841]

Pete, send a PM to Mike (racinfool40) about your shifter and this thread.  He has torn a ton of the 8 speeds apart and probably can just tell you what is wrong or what to look for.  I've got my first 8 speed tear down waiting for me in the garage. 

[DuchApl 13]

Glad I took this apart. The Imfamous differential bearing was missing a ball. Found it in the case sheared in half.

There was also quite a bit of rust above the oil level so I tried Evapo-rust on the inside of the case. Did a nice job - leaves only nice dark gray iron.

Just waiting on a gasket and this puppy is going to live again. As to the original problem... I won't really know until I start re-assembling the tractor again.

Edited May 26, 2014 by DuchApl

[DuchApl 13]

Ok, problem solved. Stupidity was the culprit.

First off, thanks guys for the help and advice. It was a wild goose chase, but I'm glad I cracked it open and with mike's help, replaced the 1533 bearing. In the process I also replaced all the springs and detent balls. Everything is back together and running pretty smooth.

Now, to the stupidity part. During disassembly I bagged and tagged every piece. Aside from several failed attempts at detent ball pinball,, re-assembly went pretty well until I went to re-attach the hi-lo shifter. All that was left in my bag was shift knobs an a cotter pin. COTTER pin, not a roll pin. Apparently someone many years ago had done a quick fix and used a cotter pin. And me not knowing any better just assumed it was correct. But right there in the service manual it says 3/16 roll pin. In goes the roll pin and the whole issue with too much shifter travel was fixed. I suppose it's possible there were issues with the detent balls, but my money is on that 10 cent fix.

Thanks again, guys!

And from now on you can call me Mr Cotter.

For the record, Steve had it diagnosed from the start.

Edited June 2, 2014 by DuchApl