20Hp Onan Gamble..

[seuadr 488]

So,

 

I took a gamble last night - browsing ebay for little bits and pieces and Lo, i come across an advertised "new" Onan short block that claims it was found NOS in a warehouse. 499.99 with a buy it now of 899.99.

 

for giggles, I say, eh, i'd be willing to pay 499, do a little cross reference on parts and looking at pictures compared to known p220 motors and my motor and it sure does seem to match, so i put a bid on it, figuring that someone is going to swoop in and there isn't a chance in heck of me getting it.

 

well. i got it.

 

so this could be interesting, i might've wasted the money - the pictures look pretty clean, but of course there is just no way to know what it looks like on the inside, but heck, why not. i can't get a rebuild for anything like that, so as long as i don't have to do any major work to it, i should still be out ahead.

 

I'm sure that i will need to pull it apart and re-prep it for startup with new moly, etc. i'll also have to pull my existing runner to supplement parts on it being a short block.

 

i'll keep you guys posted with some pics once it has come to my door and i get to see if i've been had or not.

 

 

[seuadr 488]

welp, got my motor in the mail today (that is a phrase i didn't think i'd ever say.. )

 

 

actually came in an Onan box.. which i thought was kind of cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

came sealed in a bag still wet with cosmoline, with a seperate bag containing a sticker talking about being a new engine, and instructions for governor, bearing plate and torque specs for installation of all of the bolts, along with a bulletin noting differences between 92 and older and 92 and newer motors, and which plugs you would have to use for one or the other depending on the model and manufacturer of various motors.

 

it looks like a legitimate new short block - for 500 dollars i believe i didn't do too bad.

 

i'll have to get a gasket kit, obviously, and i am assuming that i should pull it apart and lube all of the moving parts with an assemblers moly grease but all in all i think i'm pretty happy with the purchase.

 

thoughts?

Edited May 15, 2014 by seuadr

[smoreau 658]

GOOD FIND !!! cant go wrong on this deal at all!

[seuadr 488]

i don't know if i am allowed to post an ad or a seller name, but if you search ebay for onan short block - he's got a number of them he is selling off one by one, unless there is something really wrong inside, he is selling the real deal

[varosd 1,185]

looked nice by the Sleaze bay photos.

[Martin 2,131]

Don't want to spoil your great buy in any way but, I hope you realize that block isn't the same as a P220 as used on the 520 wheel horses. the head bolt pattern is a dead give away. the pattern on yours is the larger block NHE, T260, P224 style block.

 

heres the P216 P218 P220 head bolt pattern.....

 

Edited May 15, 2014 by Martin

[Martin 2,131]

I did a rebuild of the larger style block on here, had some pics comparing size. nothing wrong with the engines, but they use different heads, manifolds etc......

 

some pics of both size engines together......

 

[seuadr 488]

Don't want to spoil your great buy in any way but, I hope you realize that block isn't the same as a P220 as used on the 520 wheel horses. the head bolt pattern is a dead give away. the pattern on yours is the larger block NHE, T260, P224 style block.

 

heres the P216 P218 P220 head bolt pattern.....

 

IMG_2698.JPG

i did not.

 

looks like i need to shop around for the external bits for a p224!

 

looking at your thread, am i correct in that it looks like a number of the tins and etc were usable?

Edited May 15, 2014 by seuadr

[Martin 2,131]

parts are out there for them. you need to work out exactly what style block you have, points or electronic ignition. it will help with parts. I like the bigger engine style myself and its a typical Onan style engine, just on a larger scale. the height and width of them (from head to head) is what makes them difficult to install in a wheel horse. they are BIG. the oil pan and starter mount is different too. which means you have to use a bigger and taller pan than the performer engines as well.  theres a pic of the oil pan on that thread......if you want to know any more i will try to help you out. I was impressed with how mine ran, i really need to finish off that thread, i had it running for 30 minutes or so and the bracket on the starter cracked and i didn't want to junk the flywheel...... so it has sit as i haven't had the time to get another starter and too much else going on with the 416 I'm rebuilding and so on.......

what part number do you have on the top of the block. that would be a good start......

was that the 19.9 sears onan listing?

[seuadr 488]

Yep. That is the one. Part number is onan 170 - 43 87

Says rev f cav-1-a on the side and 11 38 59 stamped in it

Edited May 16, 2014 by seuadr

[Martin 2,131]

Yep. That is the one. Part number is onan 170 - 43 87

 

the sears 19.9 was part number 110-3859. i think i found yours though.........

 

is this the header?

 

ONAN SHORT BLOCK 110-3421-28 COMPLETE BLOCK WITH CRANK, PISTONS, VALVES

 

i looked up the number you gave me and the one in the title and it looks to be a t260. i think all the larger blocks are basically the same though...... 

[seuadr 488]

the sears 19.9 was part number 110-3859. i think i found yours though.........

 

is this the header?

 

ONAN SHORT BLOCK 110-3421-28 COMPLETE BLOCK WITH CRANK, PISTONS, VALVES

 

i looked up the number you gave me and the one in the title and it looks to be a t260. i think all the larger blocks are basically the same though...... 

it looks like possibly he sent me the wrong motor, then. the listing i won is:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181398183186?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 which clearly states the part number as  110-3859

[Martin 2,131]

alright, that makes more sense. (I was looking at the wrong listing.......)

i actually found another listing the same as that, but searched for yours in completed listings and for some reason, that one didn't come up.

 

I would search N52M and read all you can about them, it will help in your parts search to complete the engine. of course your cheapest way is to buy a complete junk or used engine for all the parts. almost nothing will interchange from the performer engines......

[seuadr 488]

alright, that makes more sense. (I was looking at the wrong listing.......)

i actually found another listing the same as that, but searched for yours in completed listings and for some reason, that one didn't come up.

 

I would search N52M and read all you can about them, it will help in your parts search to complete the engine. of course your cheapest way is to buy a complete junk or used engine for all the parts. almost nothing will interchange from the performer engines......

thanks! where did you find all these cross reference numbers, by the way?

 

i kinda get the feeling that the seller screwed up, but in my favor, since this sounds like it is a bigger motor, but i'd like to learn more about it, and more about what was listed - if the part number that was listed CAN interchange with parts from my motor - i may be better off trying to return this and get that, if they can't - well, if i am gonna rig something to try and work, then why not rig something "better"?

[Martin 2,131]

you didn't mention what engine you are replacing. none of those that i mentioned (N52M, T260, P224) will work with a 520 engine. totally different. if you are looking to replace a P220 engine with a new short block, the only one that will work is a P220. everything else is different. and it has to be a horizontal engine, there is a vertical short block on there but still not the same......

[seuadr 488]

you didn't mention what engine you are replacing. none of those that i mentioned (N52M, T260, P224) will work with a 520 engine. totally different. if you are looking to replace a P220 engine with a new short block, the only one that will work is a P220. everything else is different. and it has to be a horizontal engine, there is a vertical short block on there but still not the same......

ya, my goal was to have it on stand by to replace the p220 that is on there now. my evidently very poor research seemed to indicate that the 110-3859 was compatible, although that is not the case.

 

 

so a little more digging has shown that 110-3859 superseded 110-2686 as a sears motor. which means he sold me the motor he was supposed to.

 

making it an onan loman N52MGA01993580B like you said. 

Edited May 16, 2014 by seuadr

[Martin 2,131]

yeah, the larger block is ok as an engine goes, but not really suitable for a 400, 500 series Wheel horse. the physical size is what makes difficult. its tight enough in there with the 'smaller' block engine......

 

as far as whats the best engine, the P220 is a better engine for its size than the larger block. i have heard the T260, P224 size engines never really put out 24 hp. not sure how close the N52M is to 19.9hp though.....

[seuadr 488]

well, thats why i called it a gamble. i got time to figure it out. thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[seuadr 488]

just for posterity if anyone comes across one of these - this is verified as an N52M onan 19.9 - smallest of the "big block" onans, it has a shorter stroke than the T260 and the like at 2.64" instead of 3" it appears that ANY 10 bolt onan will be compatible for the vast majority of parts - so i think i may try to find a donor motor that has the good bits on it. 

 

i'll start a new thread if i get into building it.

Edited May 17, 2014 by seuadr