Suburban 400 Find in Florida

[Racinbob 11,030]

Last week I was going through the Ebay postings. Wheel Horses, especially round hoods, in Florida are as scarce as snow in Key West. But.......I found one and it was 15 miles from me. I contacted the seller and went to look at it. A Surburban 400!!!!! That was really cool to me because that's the very model that was my Dad's first Wheel Horse in 1960 when I was 6 years old. The hood in all there and in decent shape. The tool box and fenders were pristine. The K91 ran real well but he had installed a crankshaft from a generator and it had a tapered shaft. He welded a pulley on it. He did a pretty nice job but that's gotta go. The tranny jumps out of 3rd but I'm not concerned about tearing into it and making it right. He removed all the plastic from the steering wheel because it was cracking bad. It won't be hard to remove because he had cut it to get it off the shaft and it was just bolted on. Here's the resto tractor I've been looking for . I really don't see anything that should be a problem. The first thing I'll do is flush the tranny and then it will be reduced to kit form. Of course I'll be on here looking for some parts when I confirm what I need. Yea, I know. I'm lying unless there pictures. The plan is to pick it up tomorrow morning and then I'll post pictures of the 'before'.

[AMC RULES 37,125]

I saw that tractor too...seemed like a nice one. 

Congratulations on your new  score .    

[Wishin4a416 2,191]

Glad you found what you were looking for. Now the Fun begins. Don't forget the pictures!

[rexman72 210]

congrats on the horse

[Racinbob 11,030]

Thanks folks. I had all but given up hope since I live down here. I had an opportunity when I was up in northern Indiana last fall but family issues made the logistics just too much to handle and I had to set my priorities. I figured a few members here saw it on Ebay. There was only one other bidder but that didn't surprise me much down here. I think the $286 it cost me was a decent deal. Not a steal but I really wanted it. I knew I needed to seize the opportunity when it was slapping me in the face. When I told my wife about it tonight she just grinned. The fact that it's the same model my Dad first had meant a lot to her as well. No worries about the pictures. I'll be snapping away tomorrow.

[neil 2,409]

Im delighted that you managed to get your first Suburban . Have fun with it , look forward to seeing the pics

[Wheel-N-It 2,968]

Happy for you here too Bob. I can appreciate your search for a tractor like this as there are good memories surrounding it. Enjoy, and I am looking forward to some pics!

[Racinbob 11,030]

Just got it home! I think I did good. The seller is a great guy too. The serial # is gone. Once I get to that point I'm thinking I'll see if vinylguy can modify the overlay to just say Suburban 400 instead of SER. NO. As I mentioned, I need to find a crankshaft and the tranny gear but I want to get it torn down to confirm what I need. After I flush out the tranny I'll tear everything apart and do a complete restoration. Sheetmetal work is my weak link but this one won't be a problem. The hitch will be replaced with an era correct slot hitch. The cable is there. I'll be able to rebuild the throttle/choke controls I want to find a new steering wheel but this one will do until that happens. There's a lot of little things but I can't type fast enough to list them all and I'm sure you folks will see some I haven't mentioned. I did ask the seller if by some chance he had the guard and shield. No luck. He winters down here and lives in upstate New York in the summer. He was debating taking this back so he'd have more potential buyers but he didn't have the room to haul it. This is going to be so much fun. It won't be 100% original. I'll use a lot of stainless hardware and tweak a few things. Of course I'll post my progress but it will be a long process. My wife is happy for me but said last night "Just don't let the projects around the house come to a halt". Gotta do my best to keep her happy.

[AMC RULES 37,125]

Nice one...looks like you got a great deal to me.   

[Wheel-N-It 2,968]

I like it even better now that you posted a pic!

[Racinbob 11,030]

Thanks Van. I've been doing a lot of searching for pictures here and everywhere. Take a look at the brake/clutch connecting rod. I didn't think too much of how it's bent up because it almost seems to be a deliberate shape. I was thinking it was to clear some attachment. But I don't see another one like it. The others are straight. Now I'm thinking the PO or someone before him bent a rod intended for some other purpose just make it shorter. Any thoughts?

[captainownage01 0]

dang, for 286 you stole the thing

[Wheel-N-It 2,968]

Thanks Van. I've been doing a lot of searching for pictures here and everywhere. Take a look at the brake/clutch connecting rod. I didn't think too much of how it's bent up because it almost seems to be a deliberate shape. I was thinking it was to clear some attachment. But I don't see another one like it. The others are straight. Now I'm thinking the PO or someone before him bent a rod intended for some other purpose just make it shorter. Any thoughts?

Bob, sorry but I don't know much about the Round Hoods. Wish I did, but just never had an emotional attachment to one of those from my youth. I'm more of a Black Hood and 300 series and 400 series guy. Still though I do appreciate what you have here.

Van

[groundhog47 347]

Yes Bob, that is a nice one and I kinda see what you mean about the hubs on front, but ain't that a manly and aggressive front stance. Just ready to pounce, wow 

[papaglide 542]

That is a nice looking tractor. You did good!

[Racinbob 11,030]

Even retired my better half makes sure I have limited time to play. I flushed out the tranny with some stuff I had on the shelf but won't use in the vehicles anymore. After draining the old fluid, dumped two quarts in, spun the tranny a fair amount and drained it. It may not have done much because it came out pretty clean. I'm thinking that I'll paint the frame and tranny together. The front end, hood and stand, motor, pedals, etc. are off. I was almost giddy as I easily removed the pulleys and the right hub. I was pretty sure the right side would come off easy because of the seal leak. Well, giddy turned to   when I got to the left hub. Right now it's soaking and the puller has all the tension I should put on it. So far it's not budging. Tomorrow, if it doesn't free up, it's an impact wrench. I have a host of ideas, mostly from searches here. I have an NOS 3523 gear on the way that I know I'll need. Hopefully the original input gear or another one I have will be fine. I had hoped to know by now and have a complete list of needed parts.

[stevasaurus 22,683]

Bob...if those axle seals are not leaking...try not to mess them up.  They are about $18 apiece at TORO only...and the word is you can not get them anymore.  Just be careful with them if they are OK.      that is one nice looking 400...you did good.

[Racinbob 11,030]

Well Steve, too late. The right seal was already leaking bad and that's probably why the hub came off easily. The left hub got a healthy dose of heat today and I'm sure I did that seal in but the hub survived.....still firmly attached to the axle . Once I get the thing apart I planned on replacing all the seals anyways. I have 2 Timken 471643 seals for the input and brake shafts but I have roller bearings so they are the wrong seals.

[music100 10]

Don't ya just love to see a happy man?

[Racinbob 11,030]

I hear that music100. I might be having a few words with the hub but I really am happy. I didn't think there was much hope to find a Suburban down here let alone one this nice. The paint had the 20' look to it with the runs and such but that is the least of my worries. I've been experimenting with paint removers on the tool box and found some that takes it right down to the original paint. Some minor bodywork and a fresh coat and it should look great.

[stevasaurus 22,683]

It had to be the left hub...dang.  It is a lot of dinkin' around, and I have not done this with the 3 piece tranny yet...but it may be possible to take that trans apart from the back side.  I did take one apart with the right hub stuck on.  It may be easier to just break and cut off the left side hub and find another.  I did do this before.

 

The problem is getting the casting off by snaking it around the differential, and to have a chance at that, you would need to get out the cluster gear and shaft...and then somehow get the spline shaft up enough to get it and the fork gears out.  The forks and fork shafts are pinned directly into the casting...thus having to remove the fork gears from the back side is critical.    If you can get that far and remove the casting, you will have the differential, the left side plate and the axle with the hub.  You can then punch out the roll pins in the differential...taking out the pinions and the axle gears.  This would leave you with the axle and the hub...which would be a lot easier to press out...or just replace the axle and hub......or you could rebuild it putting the stuck hub and axle on the right side.  You may want to call me and we can talk about this...better then typing.

 

If we can find another axle...just cut the hub off and get the piece of axle pressed out...or replace the hub also.  Hubs and axles for your trans are not hard to find. 

 

Don't ya just love a challenge??     Your machine is worth the effort...and this is all labor and many beers.

[Racinbob 11,030]

Interesting Steve. I just looked and found out the two axles are the same. I just came in for some lunch after a morning of intimate time with that hub. I think I lost my touch. Here's the scoop. My wife is taking next week off. She has made it clear that we have projects to get done. Mainly painting the barn, repairing some cool deck and repainting the entire deck. She jumps right in and is a lot of help so I'll be taking advantage of her time off. She did say she wanted to go to a massive flea market on Wednesday. The great thing about this flea market is that, along with the fruits, veggies, crafts, etc. is that there is several acres of folks that bring 'junk'. There's treasures buried in that junk. I have a list . Basically, I won't have much time for the Suburban next week. I'll keep it soaking and if it comes off the following week, great. If not, I'm going with your plan. If I'm seeing it right, I'll have no need to remove the hub going that route. I've got gaskets for both sides. I was just going to take the left cover off but it's no biggie pulling both off. I'll have to round up the axle, input and brake seals but I won't know if I need anything internally for a while.

 

I likely will take you up on your offer to talk. I've done some tranny work in the past but I'm not in your league. Yes, I do love the challenge. And it's a very good excuse (not that I need one) to have a few more beers.

[stevasaurus 22,683]

Bob, you will not get the trans apart just taking off the left side plate with that hub on there.  The casting has to come off before you can remove the differential.  It is a real tight fit and the little nubbies where the side plates bolt to the casting are in the way to just lift the casting out.  Thus, having to snake out the casting.  You will end up unbolting both sides to accomplish this...and you can bet it is going to be messy with oil all over the place.  Maybe a large tin foil turkey pan under a vise.  Sound like fun yet??    Ya...call me when you get a chance...really may want to discuss options before you go too far. 

[shorts 182]

What's the odds of getting the trans to hang in a 20T press, axle flange up so you could press the flange off the axle and then disassemble the trans the regular way?  I'm sure that it would be a 2 or 3 person  job to get the trans in position but it would be worth trying to save the parts. I'm sitting here visualizing the process, rais the press table to the top of the frame, stack junk tires and plywood up to the approximate height needed, insert trans on end with stubborn hub up, lower the table, install a proper bearing splitter or collar behind the hub and support in the press table, press the axle shaft out of the hub, let the junk tires and plywood catch the trans and then move it to the bench for disassembly.  tip, I like to put a full size bakers sheet pan on the bench or floor to contain the grease mess that is inevitable during disassembly

[Racinbob 11,030]

I actually have been thinking about trying something like that shorts but I don't have the equipment and don't know anybody that does. I talked to Steve yesterday and I'm going to attempt a different approach before I give up and sacrifice the axle. It's likely I won't have much time to play with it this coming week but I'll be on it the following week. It's also possible that a week of soaking might just do the trick as well.