lowboy 1 #1 Posted March 9, 2014 i am working on what i think is a 414-8. it has the little led indicators on the dash for various switches, as well as a volt meter and hour meter. i am currently putting it back together; i bought it in peices. i am having issues with the wiring. it will not crank, but will crank if i jump the solenoid. the seat switch and parking brake switch "lights" light up on the dash, the rest stay unlit. i can make the p-brake light go out by closing the switch under the shifter plate it appears my seat switch has 3 wires to it, and none of them have 12v. can anyone shed some light on this for me? i have the usual manuals, but they are not helping in this instance 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,566 #2 Posted March 9, 2014 it appears my seat switch has 3 wires to it, and none of them have 12v. the seat switch does not have any connection to the battery the seat switch is part of the ignition kill circuitry, not the starter circuit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,026 #3 Posted March 9, 2014 Do you have the tractor model number? 1986 used a K321S-60440 1987 used a M14S-601524 1988 & 1989 used a M14S-601540 Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowboy 1 #4 Posted March 9, 2014 tractor model: 3114k804 some other number on tag: 360_6 ID; 8346 Engine is M14S601540 what do the lights on the dash indicate? as in, why are some lit and others arent? ok, so, if the seat switch will not prevent cranking, what switches do? i can see with my test light that i am not getting a trigger signal to the solenoid. wiring is not hacked, just old and dirty. on a completely different note; the engine appears that is can only mount with two of four bolts holes to the tractor frame. there is just no way they will line up. the engines bolt pattern is wider than the tractors frame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldlineman 1,481 #5 Posted March 9, 2014 I have a 1989 414-8 and I believe some of the engine mounting boults come up from the bottom into the crank case someone here will I hope verify this< I believe they are the two front bolts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,026 #6 Posted March 9, 2014 Here is the operator manual and it has the wiring diagram in it Your magneto ignition is self powered and the seat switch simply controls the grounds to the ignition. Grounded and the ignition is shut off. Do not allow any battery voltage into the ignition wires - the ignition will go up in smoke. The 3rd wire on the seat switch should trigger the seat light on without an operator in the seat. Believe the lights are explained in the manual. Here is info on the low oil switch which interrupts the starter solenoid circuit. If there is a problem with the low oil relay go to this bulletin Keep us posted with your progress. Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowboy 1 #7 Posted March 10, 2014 I have a 1989 414-8 and I believe some of the engine mounting boults come up from the bottom into the crank case someone here will I hope verify this< I believe they are the two front bolts. Ah. that makes a whole lot of sense. Thanks! i can see the outline in the paint where the engine used to sit, so i know it goes there! Here is the operator manual and it has the wiring diagram in it Your magneto ignition is self powered and the seat switch simply controls the grounds to the ignition. Grounded and the ignition is shut off. Do not allow any battery voltage into the ignition wires - the ignition will go up in smoke. The 3rd wire on the seat switch should trigger the seat light on without an operator in the seat. Believe the lights are explained in the manual. Here is info on the low oil switch which interrupts the starter solenoid circuit. If there is a problem with the low oil relay go to this bulletin Keep us posted with your progress. Garry That is the manual i need, i didnt have that one. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,566 #8 Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Also note the indicator lights and circuit board on the dash DO NOT control any functions on the tractor' their function is only to act as miniature "test lights" attached to safety switches. When a dash lite is on, one ( or more ) of the safety switches is either in the wrong position or see an. electrical fault in the circuit. Your goal is to find continuity from the ignition switch "S" terminal to the small "trigger" terminal on the starter relay. Use the manual to follow a path from the trigger terminal of the starter relay backward. You wiIl encounter oil switches, relays, micro switches and possibly corroded wiring. The indicator board does not control any of these items. Ordinarily, you might be able to use the indications for troubleshooting. At present, we cannot be sure the indicator board is working correctly. Sorry for the typos. I have a love / hate relationship with this new tablet I'm using. Edited March 11, 2014 by Save Old Iron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,026 #9 Posted March 10, 2014 (Your goal is to find continuity from the ignition switch I terminal to the small "trigger" terminal on the starter relay) I think Save Old Iron meant to type "S" terminal for starter circuit on the ignition switch. You should not have an "I" terminal on the switch. The magneto ignition is controled by the "M" terminal. Garry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,566 #10 Posted March 10, 2014 Thanks Garry. "S" is the correct terminal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowboy 1 #11 Posted March 10, 2014 fantastic help; thank you btw; where about are you SOI? i am an NY'er myself (unfortunatly) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,566 #12 Posted March 11, 2014 Around the Exit 28 area off the NYS Thruway. Tribes Hill area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowboy 1 #13 Posted March 11, 2014 small world, im right down the road in the schoharie/cobleskill area off 88 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,566 #14 Posted March 11, 2014 My wife and I make trips down that way to the nursery and the carrot barn. Never bought any carrots there tho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowboy 1 #15 Posted March 12, 2014 oh gosh, i live 1/2mile from the carrott barn......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,566 #16 Posted March 12, 2014 Some really nice old homes thru that area Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,566 #17 Posted March 12, 2014 Any updates on the troubleshooting? Don't know about you folks but we are headed for upward of 12 - 18 inches of snow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowboy 1 #18 Posted March 12, 2014 i do not have an update. i have several peices off of it for painting. like i said, i bought it in several pieces; engine off for "broken bolt removal" as per the PO (the engine cover bolts), fenders off, etc. i have a feeling it has been sitting a long time (though inside and dry). the battery has a "2001" date code(!). it is complete, and in good shape, and has a mower deck. Just a matter of getting it back in good shape for my dad. i had a raider 10 when i was a teenager, and have been a WH fan ever since. My dad had a 208-4 a long time ago, but now i am getting him a real WH. I also have a GT1800 w/plow, and i mow every week with a charger 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowboy 1 #19 Posted May 24, 2014 OK UPDATE TIME tractor is back together and it runs fairly well for sitting since 1991ish now, onto the questions: tractor would not start with the key. no clicks, no nothing. i ran a ground from the battery to the ground terminal of the solenoid, and it cranked and started normally with the key once the clutch pedal was pushed down. What does this signify? The tractor will not shut off when i turn the key off. The battery gauge will "shut off" though. What does this signify? I ended up with an "extra" light blue wire with a "piggy-back" spade connector on it. I do not seem to have an "extra wire" to hook to it, nor can i find a place to hook the lt blue wire itself. i got the tractor in pieces so, i was not the one who took it apart. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,566 #20 Posted May 24, 2014 tractor would not start with the key. no clicks, no nothing. i ran a ground from the battery to the ground terminal of the solenoid, and it cranked and started normally with the key once the clutch pedal was pushed down. What does this signify? you have lost the ground connection to your starter solenoid. if the starter solenoid id 3 terminal, clean the metal frame of the solenoid and the engine tin the solenoid touches. your are not getting a good electrical connection from chassis to the solenoid body if the solenoid is a 4 terminal relay, the ground tab of the relay needs to be connected to a good chassis ground Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,566 #21 Posted May 24, 2014 The tractor will not shut off when i turn the key off. The battery gauge will "shut off" though. What does this signify? there is a single wire connected to the magneto assembly in the engine. if the kill wire is grounded, the magneto cannot electrically produce a spark and the engine either cannot start or cannot continue to run. the kill wire is either broken off the "M" terminal of the ignition switch or the ignition switch is not grounded properly to the metal panel it is mounted in. sounds like you have rust and corrosion on many parts in the tractor after being left out in the weather since 91'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowboy 1 #22 Posted May 24, 2014 there is a single wire connected to the magneto assembly in the engine. if the kill wire is grounded, the magneto cannot electrically produce a spark and the engine either cannot start or cannot continue to run. the kill wire is either broken off the "M" terminal of the ignition switch or the ignition switch is not grounded properly to the metal panel it is mounted in. sounds like you have rust and corrosion on many parts in the tractor after being left out in the weather since 91'. i would guess you are right on, considering the ig. switch is mounted in a freshly painted/decal'd panel. Luckily the tractor was inside for the period it was not used. Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
