Wheelhorses & Snow Removal

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

I personally don't think you will be happy with the horse/blower combo. And garden tractors don't have the same performance as pro line walk behinds for cutting because they were designed to do many different tasks. I doubt you could tow 2000lbs of rock behind a pro line mower or run a 36" tiller.

If you want to start attacking piles of frozen snow I would start looking into dozer or dumptruck/plow combos.

I wasn't referencing walk behind mowers, i was talking bout sit downs/riders, that do all the same tasks.. When i mention Stander, in talking about a Wright Stander which is a rider, but your standing on a platform (not a tow behind valkee). Although i do rig huge drag pads behind my stander for leaves/yard debris/logs limbs i wouldn't want to put more than 1000lbs on it as the Stander just starts to spin when really loaded up because the drag pad obviously has no wheels. I know it sounds half azzd but it's great for bulky material that would require a pretty big trailer, one which size would max out ones towing capabilities. Even if mine did have a hitch setup to haul wheeled trailers i still wouldn't want to haul 1ton on it, it would probably kill the hydros. Now if it was a larger sit down exmark or whatever with a hitch, I'm pretty confident that it could haul a 1ton wheeled load as the stander i have doesnt strain with the common 1/2 ton load its dragging & the exmarks have bigger hydros & motors than mine. As far as a tiller..? If there was a setup for one i believe they would run as bigger sit downs are no slouch in the power department.

Say, have you ever seen a Walker Brand mower, now those are pretty impressive for a smaller machine. They also have there own line of attachments or implements, made in house or available in the aftermarket which is awesome for availability. Alot of the landscapers use them around here & the yards look emaculate. I really like the bagger design, in my opinion it's gotta be the best bagger I've ever seen, it doesn't get in the way, nothing hanging off the side & you can get an electric kit that makes the hopper dump automatically. You can also get a high lift kit that uses a sissor system to lift the hopper over the side of a dump truck. All factory kits too, pretty impressive if you ask me. I like companies that can think outside the box like that.

I would take your advise about the dozer & dump truck but a don't have use for a dozer & already have a dump trailer i need to sell.

Sounds like you know what you want. I would get tractor,single stage/ tall chute and a cab. You will want chains and weights also I bet.

Yeah Dan i got a good idea as to what I'm looking for... I'm just on the fence as to whether or not a single stage will do well when i need to blaze an access trail to the backside of the house or clear a virgin path mid winter. I've been looking into the berco blowers as I've heard they can blow up to 80ft, seen video too. But then that comes with all the normal up keep of a two stage.. & yes.. weights, chains cab etc will also be needed. Edited February 26, 2014 by jimmycrackcorn

[dandan111 31]

Walkers s are pretty cool. Look up youtube and watch one of those walkers with a blower on it move the snow. They are costly but you get great service from what I hear. If you have a big property and can justify it I would look real close at the walkers.

Edited February 26, 2014 by dandan111

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

Walkers s are pretty cool. Look up youtube and watch one of those walkers with a blower on it move the snow. They are costly but you get great service from what I hear. If you have a big property and can justify it I would look real close at the walkers.

I've seen those videos, very impressive, it's as if the blower doesn't even affect its maneuverability. Also I'm not sure but do they even have to use weights? I think chains would almost be a given in the snow with those turf tires though. Id probably run some of those terrain tires they got that are simalair to fast trekker/trakker atv tires & then stud em with gold diggers. Ive always had good luck on my 2wd quads with those year round & they look identical. I also ran gold diggers in my stock Toro blower tires & it worked out great.

If i had to do it all over again, with a new mower + attachments/implements i would absolutely go with one of those but now my $$ is scattered into different setups that I'll never get back so do i don't see that happening soon, not this year at least.

So what even happened with wheelhorse? I always thought they were one of the big guys on the mower block.. Why did they close up shop, Epa regs, big box store sales, the internet, did they miss the boat on new trending designs & think old would keep them alive? What was it, everything has its story & I've always wondered.

[bitten 134]

You are going to be hard pressed to blow a frozen pile of snow with a blower. Depending on how hard it is it can be hard to push a frozen pile. I haven't been able to push some piles with a Bobcat before. I work at a ski resort and we have 16,000 lbs machines that their only job is to groom and push snow and have had them work very hard to push very frozen snow. 

I know that life gets in the way but the best practice is to stay on top of your snow removal. On a 520 with a blower you might be more inclined to get out there more often than with a walk behind (especially with a cab). I can not speak about a blower as I use a blade on my Wheel Horses (gravel driveway). The 520 you are looking at looks like a very nice machine and as stated you can use it for other things. I understand about not wanting to mow with it but it will also do things that I wouldn't even think about doing with my lawn mower. 

Good Luck

[bigfkd22 11]

I have 6 tractors 5 wheel horse and 1 john deere. They are all set up to do one job. Tilling, plowing, mowing blowing etc. I have about 5.5k invested in my "hobby" . I don't think this is all that much for the work they can do. I also have a 522xi with 2 stage blower, cab, weight box chains and wheel weights I got this rig for 1500. It will blow better than almost anything on the market. If you were to go up market from this your talking spending 15-20k on a Kubota or a john deere subcompact .

Also this forum is full of guys that wanted and old school tractor that was built to last easy to work on and could be had at a very reasonable price. That's what the wheel horse is to me. If you want to go big or "tier 1" get a subcompact but you pay out your nose. I also don't think it's fair to compare 12k zero turn rigs (who's only job is to mow) to old school tractors. It's just apples and oranges. IMHO

[RMCIII 838]

Just wondering why it needs to be a 2-stage? The single stage throws it just as far as the 2 stage, weighs considerably less, and does not stick out as far. It will handle up to 18" of snow depth at a time. Could handle more, but it just rolls off the back side.

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

I also don't think it's fair to compare 12k zero turn rigs (who's only job is to mow) to old school tractors. It's just apples and oranges. IMHO

Well that's quite the line up, why so many? Arent the attatchments simple enough to just pop on & off? I can't see the purpose of that many.. haha.., unless of course you just like having them which is fine too.

Personally, I'd rather have one that can do it all thus the reason i brought up the Walker brand machine. I think I'm going to sell my Wright Stander & get one down the road when affordable.

Tell me why you don't think it's a fair comparison? Earlier on in this thread i entertained the fact & said it myself that these zero turns & tractors might be two different poisons but no one really got into detail on it. I would argue the fact that you say the zero turns are just for mowing as the Walker brands accepts implements & most other brands accept attachments. Also, every WheelHorse I've seen around here was bought specifically for mowing & blowing, nothing more. Then WheelHorse went under & ppl moved onto newer designs. But that is just my demographic, it could be different elsewhere. With that said, i think it's comparable, just two different eras.

Just wondering why it needs to be a 2-stage? The single stage throws it just as far as the 2 stage, weighs considerably less, and does not stick out as far. It will handle up to 18" of snow depth at a time. Could handle more, but it just rolls off the back side.

Why a two stage? Well as I've mentioned a few times in this thread we've been getting hammered with snow the past few years. I also happen to live in a valley where the wind whips through & creates some big drifts, i don't want to just chug along, i want the machine to process it & toss it into the woods that are 30-80 feet away depending on where I'm at. I've also been doing some research & have come across quite a few threads where ppl say the single is better & they like it better than the two stage, i then go look at there location & it will be down south somewhere, it pretty much discredits the post as they most likely get 8" of snow once a year. There's a reason that the two stage was developed & is now more common than singles, it moves more snow. Understanding that the two stage is heavier & requires alot more maintenance, I've been considering a Bercomac blower as well. My reasoning is that they are still in production & i could probably get a newer one for the same or less money than a collectable wheelhorse blower that most likley needs work unless brand new. I've mentioned the berco a few times but haven't heard any feedback from y'all. Have you ever heard of them? I'll post up a video for ya. Its pretty impressive. Sorry it's not on a red tractor, throws pretty far though considering it's all stock & run by a 16hp Deere.

Edited March 1, 2014 by jimmycrackcorn

[hm12460 53]

After owning and using numerous single stage tractor mounted blowers and plows, all John Deere, Cub Cadet, and Wheel Horse, Wheel Horse is the one to beat. With that said, my Toro 2 stage walk behind beats all of them and I have a large driveway.

[bigfkd22 11]

Actually I love that video! It's one of the best I've ever seen about blowing snow on a small tractor. It comes down to rpms and the design of the blower (it's a bervac or bercomac same design).

I have a fraction of the collection that a lot of the guys here have! I liked having everything set up the way I want no switching. It's not that hard to switch but soon you'll start seeing deals for tractors that you just can't pass up. Then all of sudden you have a collection.

Again my father in law has a brand new jd with fel and also a grasshopper diesel and he thinks I'm crazy. But here's what I think is crazy I can do 90% of what he can and I spent 1/6 what he did. But this is not for everyone and I totally get that. Most here won't argue wheel horse was the best ever but just the right mix of affordability durability and work ability and interchangeability to make it worth it keeping them around.

If we get much more snow I'll post a video of my rig to see how it compares to the one you posted.

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

After owning and using numerous single stage tractor mounted blowers and plows, all John Deere, Cub Cadet, and Wheel Horse, Wheel Horse is the one to beat. With that said, my Toro 2 stage walk behind beats all of them and I have a large driveway.

Your walk behind beats them all?? Thats odd.. I bet it's because it's a two stage.. What do you have for a walk behind HP? Width..?

My Airens is a 32" 21hp pro model with the bigger augers, but i still want more. I think it could be geared higher to throw further.

[RMCIII 838]

This was only 5" on snow.... The snow blower performs better as the snow depth increases. Anything around 8" or more I can throw right at 40' and the dust decreases because there is more snow and the plume is much tighter, reducing the snow dust greatly. The height of the plume is about 18' when the snow is 8" or more....Unless you get the Ber-vac or Bercomac, the single stage that hangs off the front of mine w/tall chute will blow just as good as a 2-stage. Maybe even better in certain applications. The only issue is wet slushy snow....

 

I know the Ber-vac had my attention for a while, but after giving the single stage a try, I was glad I listened to some of the experts in here. It would have been $1,800.00 for a used one.

 

Rob

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njYsb57jiGQ

 

 

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

If we get much more snow I'll post a video of my rig to see how it compares to the one you posted.

Yeah, do it up, is easy enough to post that you're off stuff now a days. I'll be interested to see.

I know the Ber-vac had my attention for a while, but after giving the single stage a try, I was glad I listened to some of the experts in here. It would have been $1,800.00 for a used one.

Rob

So let me get this straight, there's Berco-Vac too? I thought there was Berco & then Bercomac, i was thinking Berco was some sister or knock off of Bercomac. I could of sworn i saw two different websites, one for both names, Berco & Bercomac.. Maybe not? Maybe i saw a mobile format site of the Bercomac & it could of been a different layout. Confused... Lol. I'll have to look into this..

Edit:

Ahh... Now I see.. Ber-Vac, i swear i know how to read! Lol..

Edited March 2, 2014 by jimmycrackcorn

[bigfkd22 11]

Berco is the shortened name for bercomac it's the same company. Ber-vac was a Canadian company that went out if buisness and they were bought by another Canadian company who sells it's own line of blowers. Ber-vac made the first 2 stage blower for wheel horse then wheel

Horse started making there blowers in house .

The Berco/bercomac to my understanding is an aftermarket product. They can me had new but like mentioned are very expensive. The ber vac blowers are pretty rare for wheel horse. I actually sold the only one I've ever seen in michigan to another member here.

Regardless they are very similar designs and both blow snow equally well. IMHO

[RMCIII 838]

Close enough...One could call them the same....The Ber-Vac is actually spelled Ber Vac, I just put the hyphen in it. I don't know which one bought out the other, but they are the same company.

 

Rob

[bigfkd22 11]

Ber vac was bought out by agro-tech. I found this out after fairly extensive research when I needed a part.

[bigfkd22 11]

And just in case somebody stumbles upon this years from now here is the website for the company that ultimately ended up with ber vac and has information and parts.

http://www.radinter.com/snow-blowers

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

And just in case somebody stumbles upon this years from now here is the website for the company that ultimately ended up with ber vac and has information and parts.

http://www.radinter.com/snow-blowers

Not sure how i got them mixed up but that is one of the sites i saw. I heard of argo tech too.

Say, if bervacs made the wheel horse blowers for a while & they are suppose to throw the same as the berco's why does that video i posted look like the berco throws way further than the wheelhorse/bervac blowers I've seen? It's supposedly a completely stock Berco Deluxe. Without starting a war, personally I've never seen a WH blower throw close to as far as that video or other bercos I've seen.

Does anyone know of a way to run smaller pullies on a WH blower to run higher auger rpm's? Or would that wipe other parts out?

[RMCIII 838]

Not starting anything. You don't know if the guy put an impeller kit on it or not. I could put an impeller kit on mine and get an additional 5 - 10' in height and 8 - 10' in distance. The spacing between the impeller and shroud may have been improved, causing the snow to be thrown much further.....

[Hydro 131]

I've been reading this topic and really it's all about what you want and what you are willing to pay.  It's kinda like buying a car or truck.  We can always find a way to justify what we want.

 

I've had both Toro's, 2 stage and now the single.  Granted the two stage was driven by a Kohler 16 and not the 20 HP Onan.  Otherwise my tractor was done out to 520 dimensions.  This winter I have logged over 40 hours with my tractor using the plow and now the single stage.  I much prefer the single stage.  Like Rob has said once the single has a decent amount of snow in front of it, look out, it will really go to work.  More than once this winter I have taken on a full driveway with snow above the top of the thrower.  I don't care if I throw snow 30 feet or 40 feet.  I only need to throw it about 15-20 feet.  With the right wind there is never an issue and with the wrong wind sometimes you have to move it twice anyhow regardless of what you have. 

 

The 2 stage is 380 lb. stuck out front of a tractor that does not weigh much more than that.  It's harder to maneuver and hangs up more easily.  Put your front wheels over a 2" drop and see what happens when conditions aren't good.   The 2 stage takes up a lot more storage space, it's difficult to install and requires more horsepower to operate using more fuel. 

 

We live in a snow belt and have been hit pretty hard this winter too.  Here they are saying this has been the worst winter in 30 years.  I've had no problem keeping my 300 foot driveway, double and triple wide in some places clear with the single stage.  When it comes to the road where the plow has gone by, that's no issue either.

 

Now I can't now go waltzing across virgin snow this time of year blowing a path somewhere and I doubt you could with a 520 and a 2 stage given the powder under the ice and the various layers that have accumulated but even if you could do that my guess is you would not be too long before you break something.  When you're into a hard chew there is a lot of flex in the front auger and gear box on the 2 stage.  I used to wonder why there was no centre brace to the front gear box.  Either one of them will break and the auger chain needs more frequent lube on the single stage but repairs to the 2 stage will be a lot more expensive and not as easy to work on.  There will also be a shorter parts support from Toro considering they stopped building the 2 stage in 2001 or thereabouts.

 

In my humble opinion the Toro 2 stage in some ways was actually too big for the tractor.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Hydro

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

Not starting anything. You don't know if the guy put an impeller kit on it or not. I could put an impeller kit on mine and get an additional 5 - 10' in height and 8 - 10' in distance. The spacing between the impeller and shroud may have been improved, causing the snow to be thrown much further.....

I believe the guy in the video is, or has some correlation to www.jimsrepairjimstractors.com

The blower is purportedly bone stock. I've gone to his site a few times & with the the amount of free information he gives out on his faq page i would assume he is a pretty honest guy, thus the reason i believe that blower to be bone stock. You never know though, that thing sounded like a turbo prop airplaine.

But yeah, that's pretty much what i was asking, can you go about about using different parts & whatnot... What about different sizes pullies underneath the mower or at the blower? I would imagine that could be done within a happy medium.

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

will also be a shorter parts support from Toro considering they stopped building the 2 stage in 2001 or thereabouts.

In my humble opinion the Toro 2 stage in some ways was actually too big for the tractor.

Thanks for your experiences, what you mentioned about the parts is one of the main reasons I'm looking into a berco. I hate having to scavenge for ancient parts on eBay & then having to pay a premium because they are old or not made anymore. I would imagine the blower parts are even more scarce that the tractor parts.

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

shout out to Rob for that video link. Wow!

 

jimmyc, I am new to wheel horse, my first tractor for mowing and snowblowing duties. My driveway is over 500 ft. I own a jeep with a plow and a 16 year old murray 10hp two stage snow thrower. My wheel horse single stage is quite a brute with the snow, I have found parts not to be a problem, I looked at berco also. Maybe we are splitting hairs, but you will be happy with what ever you get. Dont know if you pulled the trigger yet, if not spring is around the corner, you can save a few bucks by getting a unit in the summer and be ready for next year. Good luck.

 

Glenn

Edited March 3, 2014 by JERSEYHAWG / Glenn

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

shout out to Rob for that video link. Wow!

jimmyc, I am new to wheel horse, my first tractor for mowing and snowblowing duties. My driveway is over 500 ft. I own a jeep with a plow and a 16 year old murray 10hp two stage snow thrower. My wheel horse single stage is quite a brute with the snow, I have found parts not to be a problem, I looked at berco also. Maybe we are splitting hairs, but you will be happy with what ever you get. Dont know if you pulled the trigger yet, if not spring is around the corner, you can save a few bucks by getting a unit in the summer and be ready for next year. Good luck.

Glenn

After some deliberation & brainstorming, seeing as I've already spent $2500 on a Airens this year I'm going to grab something in the Summer. If not, I'll most likely have a new plow truck by next winter also so ive got plenty of time & options in front of me. Actually, too many, but that's not too bad of a problem. I've got a few items i plan on selling, mower, dump trailer, truck, new blower & old. I may just grab a Walker mower & go from there with implements, but if that doesn't happen I'll most likely grab up a Horsey & blower.

[RMCIII 838]

After some deliberation & brainstorming, seeing as I've already spent $2500 on a Airens this year I'm going to grab something in the Summer. If not, I'll most likely have a new plow truck by next winter also so ive got plenty of time & options in front of me. Actually, too many, but that's not too bad of a problem. I've got a few items i plan on selling, mower, dump trailer, truck, new blower & old. I may just grab a Walker mower & go from there with implements, but if that doesn't happen I'll most likely grab up a Horsey & blower.

 

Do you plan on using the Airens for snow blowing? <IF yes, what model did you get?

 

Rob

[jimmycrackcorn 4]

Do you plan on using the Airens for snow blowing?

Rob

Ill probably sell it but will be take a loss. Which one is it? Well according to the dealer.. It a 2014, i stressed the fact i wasn't going to pay full retail for a left over, but i have no way of telling as i don't keep up with the blower stuff. The model is the Professional series, 420cc 21hp with a 14in impeller & 16in augers. Not a bad machine per say, but i just don't want a walk behind for the reasons I've explained in the thread. Im used to sitting in a plow truck & having the job done in a few minutes. Another reason for wanting a rider is I'm trying to set something up for my old man. He's not ancient quite yet & can still do the snow but id like to have the option of leaving him with a nice enclosed rider for the winter once i invest in a reliable plow truck & I'm out making $$. Less to worry about, ya know?