newbie here...I think my transmission is leaking and not sure of the tractor

[redhorserider 4]

I just picked up this tractor yesterday, was told it was a 1968 electro 12? It's in great shape, fires right up and runs great, plows mountains of snow with not even breaking a sweat at half throttle. Only problem i noticed since yesterday to today is a small puddle of atf fluid under the tractor. Seems to be coming from the transmission at the rear. Tractor is a beast and doesnt even bog or slip after pushing 2 feet of snow into a snow bank, the tires start slipping. Please help

[redhorserider 4]

sorry for not being more informative. is it simple to remove the trans and split the halves to replace the gasket? is there a certain way to open it? are gears and what not gonna fall out all over the place? please help

[stevasaurus 22,685]

Welcome to Red Square...  If you have the horse you are talking about, you have a Sundstrand #90-2046...the seals for the axles are #5 in the link...Wheel Horse # 6449.  Should be able to get them from TORO.  Here is the link to your tractor manual..

 

 

I do not know a lot about hydros, but you may be able to dig out the seals without dropping the trans.  Take off the wheels and hubs...you may be able to dig them out with an ice pick or an awl...they are only about 1/8" thick.  Check for movement with the axle (that would mean a worn bearing).  If no movement...OK.  If movement, you would have to drop the trans to r & r the bearing.  A picture of your trans is in the above link.  Let's go from there. 

[daveoman1966 3,745]

The Electro 12 has Sundstrand 90-2046 hydro power unit and here is a schematic of it. 

You need to FIRST...determine the EXACT source of the leak.  If it is the trans gasket, 1st to re-torque the bolts holding it together. If it isn't the trans gasket, check the axle seals...they may be leaking.  Beyond that, check the pump seals. 

 

To split the trans case isn't a simple undertaking, although there are only a few gears inside it. ( It should NOT be necessary to take the differential apart.)

 

  

 

    

Edited February 18, 2014 by daveoman1966

[stevasaurus 22,685]

Along with what Dave is saying (hi Dave)...here is a link to the transmission manual...

 

http://www.mywheelhorse.com/graphics/file/Transmissions/Transmission_Sundstrand_Hydrogear_Piston-Piston_1965-1982.pdf

[redhorserider 4]

Thank you all for writing back. I think this information will point me in the right direction and I now feel a lot better about buying the tractor now that i know support and parts are available.

What are or where can i find the torque specs for the trans case bolts? Thanks so much for the direction.  Next is to find any missing parts.

 

Excuse me while I get a little excited over my new found toy. I can't believe this thing is 12 hp. Seems so little for how much grunt it has. The 5" to 7" we just got made me giddy to go out and try my new tractor again. Glad I have about a 200' driveway to play on  sorry

[redhorserider 4]

I just realized that the schematic from Stevasaurus and the thumbnail schematic Dave posted are different and show different numbers to the same parts and some parts on one schematic are not on the other schematic. 

[ELECTRORIC 230]

MY 1968 ELECTRO 12 DEVELOPED SOME MINOR LEAKS AFTER FINDING OUT WERE IT WAS LEAKING IT TURNED OUT TO BE LOOSE BOLTS THAT HOLD THE PUMP HOUSING TO THE TRANS.

[AMC RULES 37,125]

Post up some pict of that new  beast of yours.

             

[daveoman1966 3,745]

Redhorserider is correct....  I had posted the wrong schematic.  A few minutes ago, I edited my original posting with the CORRECT schematic for the Electro 12. 

Sorry for my error.... 

Edited February 18, 2014 by daveoman1966

[redhorserider 4]

Thanks everyone. I'm definitely gonna follow all of your suggestions and hope it's something real simple.Idk if I can post pics of my tractor, it's not red like everyone else's lol  let me figure out how to add some pics. 

[redhorserider 4]

Ok got a update here. I decided to start taking apart the rear of the tractor ( seat, toolbox, some top plate) to try and see what I could find but couldn't really see much. I tried tightening any visible bolts but they're snug. Then, that's when I saw it. The 4 inches of fresh snow begging to be plowed   lol so I put the tractor back together, checked the fluid level (which was still good) and I gave the snow what it wanted.  Glad I did because when I parked the tractor I just happened to look under and notice the leak is happening somewhere higher up and dripping down the front of the transmission ( a pretty good drip too might i add)  which made me believe it was the gasket between the halves. So, whats next? what could be leaking from the top of the trans at the front? I cant see anything from looking at it from above with whats visible but i also havent completely taken the rear apart. Any suggestions what it could be?

[squonk 41,010]

How about 1 of the hoses?

[Jake217 20]

One quick thing I noticed in your original post.  It generally not a good idea to run the hydro at half throttle.  It wants full rpm's all the time.  Just wanted to make sure you were aware.

 

Good Luck!

[redhorserider 4]

I don't know whats in front there so it can be a hose that I cant see and that's why I'm hoping someone can chime in who knows what it can be.    Also Jake217, You may be right but I just don't see any point in over revving the engine. Anything more than half way just seems to be way over necessary and well I'm hoping that's why they made the engine a variable speed...full throttle is just overkill lol. 

[Digger 66 3,478]

 

 

Excuse me while I get a little excited over my new found toy.

 

This ^ is perfectly normal behavior .

[redhorserider 4]

Heres what i see

 

[redhorserider 4]

theres where it drips from

[redhorserider 4]

There she is. And no laughing cuz shes yellow 

[oldredrider 2,548]

There are "O" rings between part numbers 51 and 52. It's common for these to begin to leak after 40 plus years. Kind of a chore to replace them but it is worth it in the end. Not sure if they are still available through Toro, but can be size matched at a good plumbing store.

[redhorserider 4]

Ok great. I was trying to look at the schematic to see what could be in that area but now I know what to look for. 

Thanks for the input

[Digger 66 3,478]

There she is. And no laughing cuz shes yellow 

 

I think it looks kind of cool being a BRP fan .

[redhorserider 4]

Thanks. I think the yellow is kinda cool too.

 

There are "O" rings between part numbers 51 and 52. It's common for these to begin to leak after 40 plus years. Kind of a chore to replace them but it is worth it in the end. Not sure if they are still available through Toro, but can be size matched at a good plumbing store.

 

Ok I'm not sure what these parts look like yet other than from the schematic but If I remove "51" and replace these O rings do I just put "51" right back on? 

 

 

[boovuc 1,090]

 

Going back to the half throttle driving.........................The motors and the transmissions are designed to run at full throttle. (It's in the manuals).

You risk over heating your motor and definitely your transmission. You also are not getting the best lubrication in the top end of that motor without running it at full throttle. It also makes your tractor work harder because your not allowing enough RPM's to get you into the torque range it was designed for.

This topic comes up once and awhile but it is in the manuals and there is enough data to prove the merits of doing so and the failures of not doing so. 

Don't want to see you damage that horse.

[oldredrider 2,548]

I replaced the "O" rings in an Electro 12 a couple of years ago. Since the parking pawl needed to be repaired, I removed the pump and motor as a unit. For me, it was easier to do the repairs on a bench. Dis-assembly of the O ring cover plate is self explanatory (3 screws) if I remember correctly. Seating the new O rings is tricky...they HAVE to fit in the grooves perfectly or they will leak.

If there is no need to do any other repairs on the transaxle, removing the whole transmission is the better option as it saves buying a gasket (item 46), transmission fluid and a filter.

If your parking pawl works as it should (every time it's applied with no creep or "clicking") then just pull the rear end out as a unit.

Like I said in a previous post, it's a bit of a chore...not rocket science. Your tractor was built BEFORE we went to the moon!