Decided to go "Old School" on the repower of my SS

[Docwheelhorse 2,660]

Hello All,

well as many of you know the (POS) 400 small block in my 1971 Nova SS decided to blow up after a fit of spirited gear throwing with the Muncie M21. I didn't build the motor and never liked it from the start....

 

After blowing it up I have had 99 different ideas of what I wanted to do to re-power my car. I always kept coming back to one nagging idea. Granted this idea won't be the easiest or cheapest but will be the "Coolest" at least in my  mind and that's all that really counts.

 

After looking at crate engines, used engines, rebuilding the 400, having LOTS of power versus having average power so I could let my kids drive it etc... I have picked up a 1968 Impala 250 Hp 327 Quadrajet motor. I have always loved 327's and there big brother the 427. Never had either..... but just didn't want to say "its got a 350...... siggggghhhhhhh" when people ask.

 

I'm going to open it up a bit and see what it looks like inside---if its clean I will put in a timing chain, front cover seal, rear main seal, oil pump and whatever other gaskets I can. Motor has 96,000 and runs / sounds good. I just liked the idea that this motor is 100% complete and has all the brackets I need to run the non accessory bolt hole double hump heads,

 

Plus I want to add after market AC at some point and the cool GM Frigidaire compressor and brackets are included. The guy I got the motor from pulled it out of the Impala to make room for a sick 572 cid 850 HP Big Block. Heres a pic of the engine.... yah maybe I'm crazy but its just plain cool. I expect to get all sorts of messages about "theres no replacement for displacement" and that's fine. This is enough motor for me at this point and if I want theres lots of room left to turn this into a Duntov 30/30 wannabe!

 

Tony

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,683]

Yep, that is a 327.  I always thought they were great engines...and easy to work on.  Tore a few of them down back in the day.  That will look great in your Nova. 

[shorts 182]

I had a 365hp 327 vette motor in a 66 el camino, lots of fun back in the day

[smoreau 658]

Good choice! 327 is a very responsive engine!

 

A few things I recommend, Use a good roller chain and pull the oil pan at least. That should have a 2 piece rear seal, replace it before you install the engine as it is a lot easier while its out. Check out all the freeze plugs, if in doubt, replace them. Anything else is easy to replace after installation.

 

Novas are light and don't need big engines to make them go like the wind.

[Wishin4a416 2,191]

I had a 365hp 327 vette motor in a 66 el camino, lots of fun back in the day

I had that same motor in my 67 Chevelle. It ate the 350 Camaros and 340 cudas up easily. Gosh I miss that thing.

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wishin4a416

[Docwheelhorse 2,660]

Thanks Guys...... I dunno why but it always seemed everybody talked about the 327 Vettes, 327 Novas (62--67), 327 Chris Craft Boats and on and on.... The Small Block Chevy was just perfection from day 1 in 1955 when the first one came to life (maybe it was 1954???). Yah the 350 is the most used, most versatile engine probably ever created. BUT.... they have become boring. Seems everything from your Craftsman lawn mower (lol) to trucks, planes, boats, hot rods used it and its just boring me to tears. Just saying I have a "327" is gonna put a smile on my face and heck the "283" is even a cool little motor.

 

They didn't name it the "Mighty Mouse" for nothing.

 

Tony

[flyovrcntry 115]

That is one fime engine,though I think I would put rings and bearngs while its out,they are so easy to work on.When I turned 16 my mom took me to get my drivers lic in my dads 64 impala 327 3 spd.That's the only time I got to drive that car.I did get to drive his second car which was the ugliest 59 Biscayne 6 banger stick.It was the ugliest color,kinda between red and orange.

[Ken B 3,164]

Cool choice Tony. Way back in the day my Mom ran us 7 kids around in a SWEET 68 Gold Chevy wagon with Cragar SS mags on it. Under the hood was a sweet running 327. I can remember going out with Dad on Saturdays, he would take it out on the highway and hold it wide open thru the gears backing off around 80 to "clean it out" as he would say. Back then I had no idea what that meant but he said it needed it because Mom only potsied around with it all week. I can still remember the sound when that quadrajet opened up, that big wagon got up and moved! I would love to find a 68 Chevy wagon and do it up like the one Mom had back in the day. You are right, I always liked the sound of saying its a 327 more than saying 350. Everything you are gonna do sounds good. I'd also do a leak down and compression test. Myself, I'd pull the heads to see what everything looks like in there. Check the guides, do a valve job and new seals. Since it sounds like you'll have it torn down some ya may want to put a little cam in it?

[grnlark 479]

Cool motor Tony! And the timing of this thread is ironic. I was just telling someone yesterday the story of when I locked myself in your red Nova and started doing burnouts. That story always puts a smile on my face. Those were the good old days!

[shorts 182]

I love all of the first generation small block chevy's, the 302's in the Z28's were awesome screamers but their weren't a whole lot of them built, 327's way cool  and then there is the 400 sleeper, the small block that has the low end torque of the big blocks.  I run a SBC 406 in my Jeep But when asked it's just  SBC and the reply is 350, since they have made up their mind who am I to correct them, just say lets go for a trail ride.

[stevasaurus 22,683]

Ya...put a cam in it.    Even the air filter looks great on that engine.  Maybe some chrome???

[Docwheelhorse 2,660]

Thanks everybody for the thumbs up... and Matt go look at the red Nova now---its been sitting in my mothers driveway since September 1991 when it was taken away from me..... (its a long story and still an open wound 23 years later)  the cars shot. Maybe over some beers you, your brother , Bob M., Steve Bo and I  etc... can get together and I can tell the tale. I remember you doing the burnouts like it was yesterday----those where the good old days. I long for one more insane run in the FIAT or Musgrave's 1977 Pontiac...

 

 

Tony

[flyovrcntry 115]

I had a 62 Nova in pieces when I was drafted and went to Vietnam.It had a Pontiac rear end and I had a 302 out of a Z28 to go into it.I had about everything to put it together.I sent a letter home and told my brother he could have it.He got it all together,running good ,new paint job.We had a sister with a drinking problem.She came in one night,drunk,everyone was in bed.She took the Nova out ,rolled it and totaled it.I never got to see it finished.My brother worked his but off on that car.

 

Another funny story about a 283 engine.I had a white 57 chevy bel air 2dr ht 283 3 on the tree.I bought it with a bad engine.I worked part time at a service station and would put used oil in it,it smoked so bad.It would foul a plug or two every day.I would just clean them and keep driving while I was getting another engine.

I was just a kid living with mom and dad.After I found another engine I was on my  way home after working late and fouled a plug.I was so tired of cleaning plugs I pulled into the garage at home and shoved the pedal to the floor and let it blow.It took it awhile to stop,I actually heard one rod let go and it continued to run a little longer.

The family was at the dinner table which was connected to the garage.My dad came running out and I mean there was smoke and steam everywhere.

LOL my dad is 89 yo and he still tells that story.

Man I wish I had some of those cars back. My dad also tells people how I could switch motors from one car to another and have it running before it cooled off.Thats how easy those cars were to work on.

[grnlark 479]

Better yet, what about blowing donuts in the 68 in K-mart plaza? That was one moment in time I will always remember - when you hit the island the car lurched and the motor died. The eerie silence that fell upon us all as we just looked at one another. You turned to look at the ignition key, gave it a try and the 68 was back to life. You looked up at us, screamed "all fixed" as you slammed it into reverse and carried on. That was the best.

[Docwheelhorse 2,660]

Hello All----

just a little update.... the 327 is sitting in my driveway all wrapped up nice and snug on a pallet. After a little bit of research on the parts that where on it I decided the small valve medium chamber heads just weren't gonna cut it.

 

So on the way is a set of remanufactured "041" small chamber (64cc) 1.94/1.50 valve heads that will give me 10-1 and 325 hp with a mild crane upgrade cam over the factory stock one. These heads are essentially an exact copy of the old "fuelie" heads everybody talks about--except that these have accessory bolt holes on the front.

 

I can't wait to get this motor together.... its gonna be a slow project but hopefully something I accomplish in the next 6 months or so. Next "piece" I need is a decent steel flywheel.

 

Tony

[RMCIII 838]

Tony, it's great to hear you have finally decided what path to take.....Anyway you would have chose would have been correct, why? Because it is yours....Yep, you are gonna hear lots of advice on this one.....

Question though, why not keep it nostalgic like you started, and find a set of 302 double hump heads. 2.02 intake and 1.60 exhaust.....In 69 on the 302 they helped to develop 11.0.1 compression......Nothing like a double hump head if you are going nostalgic......The heads, along with the bore and stroke, allowed that little 302 to turn rpm's of 8 to 9,000....Not bad for a motor that came from the 60's....

[Docwheelhorse 2,660]

I was considering the double hump heads.... but they limit my possibilities for adding air conditioning etc... to the car. The "461, 461x" and similar castings do not have the 3 bolt holes drilled and tapped in the heads, these castings also do not have enough "meat" to allow them to be drilled and tapped. Yes I have all of the accessories (alternator, short water pump, power steering pump, AC compressor... all of the pulleys and brackets) off the original 327 that didn't  have accessory holes from the factory BUT... I am finding that the original style rams horn exhaust may not fit my car and finding a set of rams horn castings with the proper angle dumps maybe very expensive and perhaps impossible. The reason the exhaust matters is that on the drivers side there is a cast in boss on the front of the rams horn that allows you to bolt on the alternator. No rams horn exhaust means no alternator and then I'm in trouble.

 

So.... yes I did want a 327 with "double hump fuelie" heads on it... but after reading, and thinking I decided a set of 041's which are the "double hump heads" with accessory holes will fit the bill. Yes it not 100% nostalgic---but I am not painting myself into a corner concerning how my accessory drive/exhaust/pulley setup will work out. I would hate to pay for a reconditioned set of double hump heads just to have to pull them off because they wont work with my car.

 

Next question---I have done plenty of reading and have found out that while people always think "bigger is better" the 2.02 valves actually hinder the intake flow out of the head up to about 5000 rpm at which point the bigger valve starts helping. I am not building a 302 DZ motor and don't have plans for the amount of $$$$ it would take to build a small block that will spin to 8000 more than once....  The heads I bought came with 1.94's from the factory  and I am not going to pay to have the seats cut for 2.02s.

 

The "041" 64 cc heads where on the LT1 350 in 1970 and then died an EPA mandated emissions death.... the "041" heads for 1971 and 1972 where 76 CC and gave 8.25/8.5-1 compression. It only got worse from then on... so my recipe is going to be a 1968 small journal 327 with flat top pistons, the 041 heads, a set of rams horn cast iron exhaust manifolds if I can, a set of log style cast iron exhaust manifolds if I have to, the 1968 cast iron intake with the oil fill up front, the original Quadrajet 4 bbl and a Competition Cams 274 H cam.

 

Except for those 3 little holes on the front of the heads it will definitely look the part... and the 041 heads have what I think is two "square" cast markings up front which look extremely similar to the double humps anyways. Motor will easily and reliably make 300--325 hp and run between 2000 and 5500 all day.

 

That's the plans and sorry if I was long winded... If it sounds anything like this I will have to have some quiet time with myself...     ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk9L2Wp10II

 

Tony

[Docwheelhorse 2,660]

Okay---for you guys that want to see a 327 that the guy is attempting to blow up.... PLEASE NOTE HE's RUNNING 041 Heads!!!! --http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXomSdx9O0Y

 

Theres just too much involved in making a motor do this SAFELY. I have seen flywheels and clutches explode and come up through the floor and out the roof. My uncle used to professionally drag race.... I don't want to loose my leg(s), life or anything else delicate.... by pushing it to the limit and spinning a 50 year old motor like that on stock or close to stock parts.

 

Tony

[6wheeler 603]

yup,mighty mouse they are. FYI, My uncle had a 65 Impala 327 3spd. Fun car to drive. Sounded cool too. Especially when we would downshift her too fast and make the pipes "cackle". However, Houston we have a problem. Tach her out downshifting and off come the piston skirts.....OOPS. Oh well, we will never do that again (until the next time we did it of course). It happened 3 times that I knew of before he sold it. Have fun

[VinsRJ 721]

FIAT Super Brava!

[Docwheelhorse 2,660]

Now There was a car you could rev the piss out of and it just kept asking for more....

 

 

"GET IN THE EFFIN CAR!!!! WE ARE HAVING AN EFFIN MELTDOWN!!!!!"

 

 

Vin, Matt, and a very few others will understand the above quote...

 

Man... been 25+ years since team Fiat ruled the streets of South Windsor CT. Where does the time go

 

Tony

[hm12460 53]

Excellent choice! +1 on what Smoreau said about replacing the 2 piece rear main seal before you install the engine. Actually, any SBC with a 4" bore is a good choice.