Loader hyd - 550 ark

[shorts 182]

You're on the right track, a 1/2" ID pipe will flow about 2 times as much oil as a 3/8 ID fitting and then use the 3/4" low pressure hose, it will flow 2 times as much oil as the 1/2" pipe which will reduce the suction stress on the hose, what looks like "not much" is actually double the supply and that's huge in this instance

[Dieselcowboy 210]

My have I learned alot in the last week on hyd. A hyd pump is like a dog, if you want it to work for you, it needs to be fed. With that it also needs a place big enough to pee. Thank you Shorts so much for the help. This loader flies now. The pump runs very quite at all rpms. Very cheap repair from what I was expecting. You guys must really know what you are doing just from looking at a few pics and picking right up on the problem. Speaking of that here is a pic of the update. And tomorrow I'm going out and scoop some snow around. Really excited !

Edited February 8, 2014 by Dieselcowboy

[shorts 182]

Good deal, glad you finally have a properly working hydraulic system.

 Always happy to be able to help you learn about basic hydraulics, something that you can use in the future.

Now go back and finish your pump plumbing by installing a second hose clamp at each end of the suction/supply hose, turn the second clamp so that the screw is opposite of the first clamp to prevent any air from entering at the fitting.

[shorts 182]

we want pictures of the complete package moving snow.

[Dieselcowboy 210]

 I have one of it out the other day. But I didn't have a camera operator. But next time I have it out I'll do it. It's now in my shop having custom made forks built for it.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Dieselcowboy

[brandonozz 168]

Here are a couple of pictures of the Ark 550 mounted on my D. You will notice that I do have quick connect fittings on my suction and discharge lines as I do not remove the pump when pulling the loader.

What you will notice is that the suction line (and fittings)are bigger than the discharge line size. Small fittings will create a restriction in the suction flow of oil but the real restriction is the small diameter hose. Short distances (fittings)will restrict flow a bit but long distances of small diameter (small hose) will cripple the flow. Shorts is right on the money with the pump starving.

[brandonozz 168]

Dieselcowboy, Glad you got it going.

Not to hijack your thread but there was mentioned earlier in this thread about the relief valves in the spool assembly. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the relief valve always relieving except for when the loader is moving/being operated? I thought the relief was a part of the spool that set the hydraulic pressure to the cylinders by relieving back to the tank ultimately setting the operating pressure of the lift system.

Edited February 12, 2014 by brandonozz

[Dieselcowboy 210]

I may at some point put the disconnect back in but I'm lucky enough that I can leave it on the sub frame upon removal. And I'm so thrilled that everything is working good I don't want to touch it. =-)  This loader will more than likely not be taken off other to get painted as the tractor is dedicated also. 

As far as the relief valve I'm sure shorts will be back in a few and probably answer that for you. 

[ol550 830]

Dieselcowboy, Glad you got it going.

Not to hijack your thread but there was mentioned earlier in this thread about the relief valves in the spool assembly. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the relief valve always relieving except for when the loader is moving/being operated? I thought the relief was a part of the spool that set the hydraulic pressure to the cylinders by relieving back to the tank ultimately setting the operating pressure of the lift system.

 

The relief valve does just as it is named.  Fluid is not pressurized in the system until it is needed for extending or retracting a cylinder.

The relief valve is to protect the system and components from overloading.  This is what is called an open center system.  Now if you

want to talk about closed system hydraulics with pumps that have stroke valves and maintain operating pressure we need to start a

new topic.

[wrightorchid 261]

Looks great, other than the yellow an green....Glad it's working.  Amazing the amount of knowledge in this group.  I don't think there is anything unkown by somebody here.

[Dieselcowboy 210]

I know right , on the paint. I used to really like to get my things painted and looking pretty. The older I get the more I just want to use it and kinda have slacked off painting. But if anything deserves new paint it's this rig. Thinking of painting the loader this summer but we'll see. 

[shorts 182]

Ole 550 is correct, open center valve lets the oil free flow until a spool valve is moved away from center, then it directs oil to where ever it is plumbed to, it also lets the oil on the other side of the spool to flow un restricted back to the reservoir. when the oil to the cylinder reaches the preset pressure the relief valve bleeds off the excess pressure and returns it to the tank..

 

The loader is one attachment that deserves to be painted to protect the integrity of the structure from rust even if it is just a coat of Rustoleum primer mopped on.

[Dieselcowboy 210]

Sometimes after you have something for awhile a person forgets how lucky they are to have it. Whatever it may be. 

[brandonozz 168]

Ol550/Shorts,

Thanks for explaining how the spool valve works. It does make sence that the fluid isn't "working" when the loader isn't being moved as the engine is lugged down slightly when the vlaves are operated and the fluid is forced to work.

At my work we use a pressurized diesel systems for burners and the system pressure is maintained by a relief valve which sets the diesel fuel pressure available to use in the burner. A post a few weeks back had mentioned how the reliefs in the valves in these ark loaders could be increased to allow the loader to pick up more so I thought that is how the system pressure was achieved. I guess what is really going on is the valves are operated and the pressure will build to lift the cylinders up to the point that the relief valve limits the available pressure.

Are you guys familiar with the impliment lift vlaves used on the D's? Are they an "open center" type valve similar to the loader? I'm trying to get the parts together to add a hydraulic lift to my C165-8 and would like to use the valve assembly off my D parts tractor if possible.

[shorts 182]

Brandon, If you can find  an old paper Graingers catalog they used to have a good basic hydraulic theory section, Parker Hannafin used to print a series of hydraulic handbooks or bibles that are worth their weight in gold. do some old fashion research and get some of this information in your personal library of reference material.

 

The valve from the D should be open center,  some loader valves have a float position with a detent past the lift down position that lets the lift cylinders bleed off pressure so the bucket doesn't develop down pressure.

[brandonozz 168]

Shorts, i will look for some information on hydraulcs as you mentioned. Heck, I may even have some here in my office on the bookshelves. I did find some open center valve drawings on the interweb last night and that helped to paint the picture. What I figured I wouldn't be able to find is drawings of the valve assembly used on these D's. I figured I could test the flow with air pressure to make sure it's an open center. My assumption is there isn't an internal relief in the control valve so I will need to add one to the pressure side.

I have seen in other posts that the Ark loaders do have the float position.

Thanks again for the information.