1533 bearing

[oldlineman 1,482]

Just sitting here and thinking about the 1533 bearing. I understand that it is no longer available. What exactly is so special about this bearing that no other manufacture of bearings makes a replacement? Can't imagine that someone does not make a replacement.There is much more knowledge about these trannys than I have on this site, but just hard to understand.   Thank You   Bob 

[stevasaurus 22,881]

It's not the ID or OD that is the problem...you can get bearings with those measurements.  It is the height of the bearing that is the issue and not out there...the #1533 is thinner then what is available from any of the bearing houses.  There are a number of posts here in the transmission section that go into all the details about this bearing plus some alternative ideas.  TORO still had these bearings a few years ago.  I managed to buy 2 for my #5025 transmission back then...they were about $80 apiece. 

[whfan74 2,068]

Mike aka racinfool40 sells used ones quite often.  He is big in to rebuilding trannies and if you need parts or one rebuilt I could contact him through PM.

[oldlineman 1,482]

Thank you for the replies, was just curious about what was so special about these bearings. No right my 1979 c-101-8 is fine and my 1989 414-8 is resting in the shed till mowing season. Both have strong trannys as far as i know, no problems just changed tranny lube in the fall and the old oil looked fine. Thank you  Bob

[bowtieguy 334]

I think Wesbster defined this product as PROPRIETARY...just sayin'.....you know somewhere there might be a "bucketload" of these bearings but as a senior buyer for 20 years, I was never able to find em'!!!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,102]

There was also a time when Wheel Horse could not get enough 1533's to meet demand.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/1841-wh61-90-369-inner-axle-bearing-1984-gt-series-c-series1pdf/

Not included in the PSB is needle bearing part # 8048 (1/2"x2-1/8"x2-1/2") and inner bearing race part # 8052 used in earlier transmissions if they are the same?

 

Garry

[608KEB 795]

I saw a post maybe a year and a half ago where someone here modified a bearing to replace #1533 bearing. I checked with toro 2 years ago when myself and a friend rebuilt my B-80 transmission. They said it was no longer available. I checked with different old Wheel Horse dealer. He had 2 new #1533 bearing left. I bought them. The date stamped on the bag was 2009.

[doc724 925]

Stevasaurus.

 

I was always confused as well as to what made these bearings difficult to find a second source.  However, I thought, based on reading a thread here where someone remachined the housing and differential plate (on a 1 inch axle model), that one of the diameters was also a problem.  I consider you to be the most expert in this area, so my question is:  If it is only the thickness that is a problem (new ones are too thin) can a shim washer under the bearing be used to compensate? 

 

thx

[stevasaurus 22,881]

doc...I am by no means an expert...I would consider myself knowledgeable...TT is really the expert.  Yes...Buckrancher (Brian) did a thread where he turned out some of the material in the cases to make what is available fit.  One thing...whether you have 1" or 1 1/8" axles it is the same bearing that is what I would call the differential carrier bearing...the axle is machined down to the outer size after that.  The real problem is that you can not get that bearing with the ID and OD, but without the correct thickness.  If you could get one thinner...yes...you could just ad a shim.  I want to say that the bearing thickness is 1/2"...not sure with out searching...but say it is 1/2"...when you shop for one, they are 9/16" or 5/8" thick.  You need to remove material in the case...both sides...to make that work.  That is the problem...removing material where the bearing sits to make it right. 

 

Hope that makes since...with out searching!!!...ID 1 1/2"...OD 2 1/2"...thickness 1/2"...contains 12 ball bearings that are + or - 1/4"  The actual measurements are found in the threads that address this issue.  As stated above...Wheel Horse had their own shortage of these bearings...their fix was to put in a spring steel bushing to cut down the OD so they could use a needle bearing.  That bushing may still be available, but it is expensive...which is why we all on Red Square have been trying to figure out a "cost effective" way of making this work.  Actually, I like the way Brain (Buckrancher) attacked this problem, but it takes a machine shop or if you know somebody with a lathe...but it means that ...in the long run...all the transmissions are fixable.  That is the most important thing...you can get all the other bearings and seals from bearing houses...they are common sizes.

 

Note...the #1533 bearing is not used in the RJ & Suburban 3 piece transmissions...bronze bushings are used there.  Their problem is the cap axle seals that are only available from TORO...$18 a piece (at the moment).  They are going to become extinct also.  You can get all the other stuff for these transmissions...I have a couple of ideas for bypassing these seals...but that is another thread. 

 

Bottom line...there are ways to make things work...at this point, in all the Wheel Horse transmissions.  The great thing...Red Square members have the expertise to attack these problems and are willing to share what they know...can't beat that with a stick. 

[doc724 925]

Hi Steveasaurus

 

I did a little looking around after my post, and I agree with your assessment.  You can either get a bearing with the correct ID OR correct OD but not both.  I have seen thickness from 7/16 to 9/16.  I also agree that Buckrancher had a great approach to the problem and as you said, it depends if you have access to a lathe or a Bridgeport with a rotary table.  If you have a lathe, you can turn the pinion carrier down to 1 3/8 diameter (yes, that only leaves 1/8 inch of metal between the axle and the inner bearing race, but it should enough) and buy a standard bearing with a 2 1/2 inch OD.  If you have the Bridgeport, you can hog out the casing to accept a 2 5/8 OD bearing with a 1 1/2 inch ID..  I don't know how much meat is left in the casing  though.  Standard bearings are under $10.    I don't know how much machine shop time/cost is needed.

 

thx again

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

doc...I am by no means an expert...I would consider myself knowledgeable...TT is really the expert.

No expert here either Steve...... just a guy who was bored - and brave enough to type a lot.

 

I will add this picture of a 1533 bearing - just to show how "odd" they are and because it was handy. 

 

Here it is in it's natural habitat:

 

The substitute needle bearing & race (standard in some of the D series transaxles under part numbers 8048 & 8052) were 2 1/2" OD with a hardened "bushing" (inner race) that installed on to the differential end caps.

It was similar in design to the large needle bearing in the manual PTO pulley / hardened inner race mounted to the engine crankshaft.

 

Numbers 13 & 40 on this IPL:

[stevasaurus 22,881]

TT...you are too modest...your knowledge is top shelf and you are probably the most knowledgeable member on here that is willing to chime in.  We also have "gwest" that is willing to chime in with pictures and links of all the manuals and service bulletins for members.  Just talking transmissions...we have a very good network of members that hop in and offer their expertise...I know nothing about hydros...but sorekiwi, martin, DClark, Sousa, Kelly, racinfool40 and now a few of our "over the pond guys" and many others that hop in to help pick up the slack to answer questions are invaluable to what makes this site work.  I know I have not mentioned everyone, but my hat is off to all of you.  I still learn something every day (I just hate that  ), but it is what keeps me and everyone else coming back in every day to see what is going on.  My hat is off to all of you guys and gals...you are keeping me young.  THANKS 

 

Doc...when you look inside a transmission, you would not think that a 1/16" would make that much difference in the thickness of a bearing...but times 2 is 1/8" and it does make a difference.  If only Wheel Horse would have used a standard bearing in this spot???  I know this...we are not going to start scraping horses because of the WH # 1533 bearing.  We have put men on the moon, gone to the depths of the ocean, cured viruses, beat the best video games (donkey kong), conquered windows 8???, achieved 100% Agave, and we have Rock & Rye...life is good...we will survive.

Edited January 31, 2014 by stevasaurus

[oldlineman 1,482]

I didn't mean to stir up the pot so much. I just could not understand what was so special about that bearing. Thanks for all who responded to that question, i have learned something today, that is i hope i never have to open any off my trannys and deal with this bearing , but if i do this is the place that i will turn for info. and advice for the repair.  Thanks for everyone's responses.   Bob  

[clintonnut 126]

The bearing was bought only by Toro and because of this, they made an arrangement with NICE ball bearings to make the bearing proprietary to them. This info came direct from the bearing company whom I called several years ago about the topic. 

 

As far as these bearings, they seldom wear out because of use. What kills them is the moisture inside the transmission. I frequently disassemble the bearing, polish the races and insert new 1/4" ball bearings to "rebuild" them.

Charlie

[buckrancher 2,694]

Hi Steveasaurus

 

I did a little looking around after my post, and I agree with your assessment.  You can either get a bearing with the correct ID OR correct OD but not both.  I have seen thickness from 7/16 to 9/16.  I also agree that Buckrancher had a great approach to the problem and as you said, it depends if you have access to a lathe or a Bridgeport with a rotary table.  If you have a lathe, you can turn the pinion carrier down to 1 3/8 diameter (yes, that only leaves 1/8 inch of metal between the axle and the inner bearing race, but it should enough) and buy a standard bearing with a 2 1/2 inch OD.  If you have the Bridgeport, you can hog out the casing to accept a 2 5/8 OD bearing with a 1 1/2 inch ID..  I don't know how much meat is left in the casing  though.  Standard bearings are under $10.    I don't know how much machine shop time/cost is needed.

 

thx again

I have not looked at the transmission cases yet but you can not do the fix I did on the 1 1/8" trans. axles as the diff. housing end caps are  bored bigger for the larger axle and I would be afraid the diff. end cap may shear off at the bearing under a heavy shock load

 

Brian

[stevasaurus 22,881]

Charlie...thanks for chiming in here...you were rebuilding these bearings before I ever opened a transmission.  It would be nice if, in your spare time, you could do a pictorial or videos showing how you take that bearing apart and end up putting it back together.    Maybe bring one to the show, and I will video the process.

 

Brian...you are incredible with what you do and are capable of...both of you guys give the rest of us hope.  I think it will be an interesting show in June...I know I do not want to miss this. 

 

Bob (oldlineman)...this is a great thread.  New ideas and techniques happen and to bring this up once in a while is a good thing...Thanks    Sooner or later, the used transmissions that we are picking up cheap to get these bearings are going to become scarce...then we will be machining and trying to figure out how to keep these old horses going.  I should not have said that.    What all the members should do now is make sure they have good oil in the trans...no water...good seals (including the shifter boot) and keep a good eye out.  These bearings will last basically forever if taken care of...a little preventive maintenance goes a long way.  I would really like to see how Charlie takes one of these bearings apart and puts it back together. 

Edited January 31, 2014 by stevasaurus

[Don1977 604]

Some one showed how to replace the balls in a bearing. I know I have seen it somewhere. You have to remove the cage and move all the balls together on one side to get the bearing apart or to reassemble. I haven't done it, but I don't see any other way.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Don1977

[chazm 413]

Here's a video on rebuilding a roller bearing. I see that reinstalling the cage could be hard, Maybe Charlie an chime in here on that procedure

 

 

[oldlineman 1,482]

Very interesting video' often wondered how they put a bearing together. That would only work if the inter and outer race where not worn correct? Still boggles me that out of all the bearings in the world this size is not made! Seems like a conspiracy or something. This has been a great thread with a great amount of input from some very knowledgeable members. Thank you, there has to be an answer to this problem out there somewhere. Bob  

[buckrancher 2,694]

you can not do the one TT has a picture of unless you can re rivet the bearing cage back together the old style that Charlie is talking about uses a bearing cage shield that goes in from one side

I have taken some apart but found that unless the bearing is really really worn bad you will not be able to rebuild it by replacing the balls as the bearing does not use .250 dia balls the stock bearing uses .247 dia. balls (proprietary)

when you try to use .250 dia balls the bearing locks up and you can not space them out to reassemble the cage in the bearing ( in other words you loose all the clearance in the bearing between the balls and races)

 

Brian

 

I think the bearing in TT's second pic is the old style

Edited February 1, 2014 by buckrancher

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

Good call Brian!

The loose bearing is out of a 110995 eight speed from a 1986 417-8 (111199)

The one installed in the case half is from 1971 (5073 six speed)

[oldlineman 1,482]

Just thinking about this 1533 problem and am not a machinist but would it be possible to alter the bearing instead of the transmission? could you use a bearing with a larger ID and put a bushing on the differential housing? Or get one with a smaller ID and cut some of the material out of the bearing to make it 1 1/2" ID? Or get one with 1 1/2" ID and say 2 7/16" or 2 3/8" and shim the tranny case with a bushing? Just thinking out loud.  Thanks for the replies, with so many experienced WH experts here on RS their is an answer, I know new bearings would be the best answer.  Bob    

Edited February 1, 2014 by oldlineman