swarfeater 49 #1 Posted January 23, 2014 after using only the 4wd ford for years for whatever work, i thought i would give the horse a try. loaded rear tires with chains so i figured she would do ok, what a mistake !!! 2 inches of snow was way too much for this 312-8. she would not steer unless i only turned the wheel 3 or 4 degrees, traction was an absolute joke, she struggled to climb a 10 degree slope. very disheartining event. i'll stick with the ford in winter, she refuses not to do anything asked of her, on very easily i might add. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chazm 413 #2 Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) IMHO your talking apples & oranges here A 4wd tractor against a 2wd tractor... I would hope that the 4wd tractor would do better Any old guy will tell you that for best traction you need the weights and /or bike chains on the front tires, especially with a push blade. I have the same problem with my 314. I just lift the blade a little bit to get her to turn... Edited January 23, 2014 by chazm 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dodgemike 52 #3 Posted January 23, 2014 I am a lttle mystified by your experience. My dad has a 312. 48" plow, rear weights and chains. The front 100' feet of his drive is steep. I can easily plow 6" of snow going up the hill. Never spin a wheel. Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
js5020 111 #4 Posted January 23, 2014 I also have a 4wd CUT to go along with the WH. I have noticed that the WH is light on the front and slides out easily, I see some here put and old chain around the steer tires, some put additional weight on the front to help with the slide out, some do both. I have ags and tri ribs and have yet to toss chains on them, and have little traction issues. I have found its best to run straight lines with the WH, the CUT obviously has alot more weight, the front tires likely put more weight on the ground than a WH weighs in total so its not going to push out. Another thing I think contributes to the issue is the way a WH blade mounts,,,, its a 2 edged sword, the rear axle mount seems to give great pushing ability but once you start to use it weight comes off the front and you get the slide? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldlineman 1,481 #5 Posted January 23, 2014 Have had great luck with my 1979 c-101-8. I have 80 lb. on each wheel, chains and a 10 in. cement block full of cement bolted to the hitch in the back. No weight on the front but that would help sometimes. Was trying to fine front wheel weights.That little tractor has pushed a lot of snow and dirt. One winter my neighbor Bill age 80's tried to get his car up his driveway, pulled up and then backed up and tried again. Well on one try he backed up for another try and forgot to put car in drive.Well you know what happened, hit the gas and shot back across the road and into the hay field about 25,30 feet. Got the horse out and in short order pushed out enough snow to get him out.About 16 in's of snow in that field. I told Bill this is a fine place to park a car,he just looked at me and laughed. Love my c-101-8. Bob 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illinilefttackle 399 #6 Posted January 23, 2014 after using only the 4wd ford for years for whatever work, i thought i would give the horse a try. loaded rear tires with chains so i figured she would do ok, what a mistake !!! 2 inches of snow was way too much for this 312-8. she would not steer unless i only turned the wheel 3 or 4 degrees, traction was an absolute joke, she struggled to climb a 10 degree slope. very disheartining event. i'll stick with the ford in winter, she refuses not to do anything asked of her, on very easily i might add. Sorry- but I'm not buying it-the FORD part maybe accurate- but not the 312-8 part. When you add in "loaded rear tires & Chains" NO-WAY. My C-125 will push 12" of snow with just chains-no problem with ice either- It's OK to blow your Horn about the Ford-but don't bash the Horse-just get rid of it if you don't like it. 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leeave96 487 #7 Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) I've never really had a problem steering when pushing snow. I added front wheel weights mainly to keep the front end down somewhat when moldboard plowing (and that they are a cool accessory) and I'm sure that helps to. Wouldn't expect the Wheelhorse to out perform the 4x4 Ford, but have been using my Wheelhorse for a lot of years now and they are a great snow removal tool. Is your blade floating on the ground or are you applying down pressure - which could effect your front steering/traction. Edited January 23, 2014 by leeave96 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coadster32 793 #8 Posted January 23, 2014 Don't want to jump on anyone's band wagon but my little 551 suburban plowed 4+inches of snow w/o issue, no weights/chains, etc. I have never owned a 300/400 series, but don't think they'd loose the front end or traction on 2inches. No doubt, 4wd is better than 2wd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken B 3,164 #9 Posted January 23, 2014 I just plowed all of the roads in my private neighborhood the other day with my 417-8 that has chains and rear weights. The snow was 5 inches deep and fairly heavy, no issues whatsoever with traction or steering. Anyone that has been to my house knows that there are hills everywhere, and steep ones. I know that my tractor is a little bigger than yours but I've also done it with an 854 that is smaller than yours with no issues either. If you have the smooth ribbed tires on the front maybe its time to get some real tires. I've pushed 2 ft. of snow with a Wheel Horse so you are going to have a hard time convincing me that a Wheel Horse can't handle 2 inches... 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldlineman 1,481 #10 Posted January 23, 2014 In the winter of 93-94 we got 4 feet of snow in one storm and my driveway was never closed 125' drive with some grade. Bigger problem was where to put it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swarfeater 49 #11 Posted January 23, 2014 ok, firstly, i am not bashing the horse, and i was certainly not comparing it with the ford, not exactly apples and oranges but more like abrams vs ar15. my point was this, with the snow blower on it would not pull itself up a frozen gravel driveway (about a 12 inch rise in 20 feet) in 2 inches of snow. would not do it. took the blower off and it would not turn sharp enough on a 30 foot wide driveway to turn around. i actually put it in 1st gear low range got off and pushed the front end around by hand. and yes the tires ARE calcium filled, front AND back, and wears chains !!!! this is western pa and we do get some snow once in a while. its not that i was expecting the horse to perform as a full size 4wd tractor do's it's simply that i was shocked by the total lack of ability in these circumstances. in fact i never used a machine so small in these conditions, the farmall cub is my smallest. but i am not going to mess with the blower any more, i got a 520 swept axle to install on the horse and a pair of 26 inch ags for the rear and am looking for some wheels and triribs for the front. this is to make room for the 50 inch mower im putting together for it. truth is when you use a 4wd tractor for everything for years, i guess you get kind of spoiled, and i certainly am, used it to pull a big dodge ram up a bank out of a ditch the night we got the snow. and the ford tires are NOT filled with anything but air. long live the horse 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThreeHorses 20 #12 Posted January 23, 2014 Sounds to me like you need some weight on the rear of the tractor. 312-8 speed with tri-ribs on the front. Wheel weight and/or suitcase weights on the back. I plow with a 312-8, 54" blade, cast wheel weights, 6 40lb suitcase weights on the back, 8" wide ag. tires. Plow steep paved driveway plus large parking gravel parking area and gravel path to my wood shed. Tractor will go anywhere I want it to including plowing the steep paved driveway uphill. blower on my 520H now but haven't had enough snow to get it out, only 5-6" at one time. I did use it on another 312-8 before and with similar setup worked fine after I added some weight on the back. I've got a Kubota BX2370 with 4 wheel drive, loader, and rear blade. I haven't had enough snow to have to use it yet. No comparison to the 520H with loader I had before. The Kubota is much more capable but also cost a lot more. I did move lots of rock with the 520H and it's loader, 25+ tons. Nothing beats having a loader no matter what size tractor it's on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WH nut 553 #13 Posted January 23, 2014 Well if the little 312 is such a bad tractor I will take it off your hands. I know it will do better than you are saying. I will take it any day. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,635 #14 Posted January 23, 2014 Loaded Tires do not add that much weight. I only somewhat less than 5 gal of beet juice in my D200 rear tire. That is lessthan 50lbs. Your tires probably dont't have that much calcium. Put 50 lb weights on each wheel and another 50-75 on the draw bar and with chains she will push. The bike chain in the front tires will also help. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
js5020 111 #15 Posted January 23, 2014 ok, firstly, i am not bashing the horse, and i was certainly not comparing it with the ford, not exactly apples and oranges but more like abrams vs ar15. my point was this, with the snow blower on it would not pull itself up a frozen gravel driveway (about a 12 inch rise in 20 feet) in 2 inches of snow. would not do it. took the blower off and it would not turn sharp enough on a 30 foot wide driveway to turn around. i actually put it in 1st gear low range got off and pushed the front end around by hand. and yes the tires ARE calcium filled, front AND back, and wears chains !!!! this is western pa and we do get some snow once in a while. its not that i was expecting the horse to perform as a full size 4wd tractor do's it's simply that i was shocked by the total lack of ability in these circumstances. in fact i never used a machine so small in these conditions, the farmall cub is my smallest. but i am not going to mess with the blower any more, i got a 520 swept axle to install on the horse and a pair of 26 inch ags for the rear and am looking for some wheels and triribs for the front. this is to make room for the 50 inch mower im putting together for it. truth is when you use a 4wd tractor for everything for years, i guess you get kind of spoiled, and i certainly am, used it to pull a big dodge ram up a bank out of a ditch the night we got the snow. and the ford tires are NOT filled with anything but air. long live the horse I know the feeling as I have never had a GT till this year, only the 4wd CUT for years, CUTs are brutes (even with unloaded tires) compared to GT class machines and most tasks we have for them you can just "muscle" through, no finess required. I have used the WH this year as the primary snow machine because snow amounts dont justify dragging out the CUT and the WH with the hydro is just so much more maneuverable and with the smaller blades/blowers and do a cleaner job at my place. From using the blower on my WH this year I can tell you if steering doesnt respond pick the blower up a tad and it will put weight on the tires, the blower likes to run straight lines even with a 16hp on the frame mine will stop responding and I lift the blower a tad and resume steering, pretty much same with the blade. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmsgaffer 2,043 #16 Posted January 23, 2014 My c-125 has plowed my steep driveway 3 times this year. I have a 20' wide drive with a 5" per foot rise. The last one it was so cold as soon as I plowed the first 6", the snow that was falling instantly froze into ice. It was not easy (i was burning rubber and doing the open-diff-weight-transfer-dance to get back up the hill most of the time) but it definitely still got the job done. I have front cast and rear plastic weights. If i had chains, there would have been no question it would have made it with much less issue. I also attribute the problem to having old dry rubber with lawn-tread pattern. Didn't give it much grip, so I plan on getting more serious with the tires to help as well. You definitely have to handle a 2WD differently (i have a 2WD pickup) but it can definitely accomplish more than most people expect when properly equipped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,131 #17 Posted January 23, 2014 Two additional questions (for now)....... 1) How wide are the rear tires? Raise the rear of the tractor high enough so that both tires are off of the floor / ground and spin one tire. 2) What direction does the other tire turn - the same or opposite? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roscoemi 245 #18 Posted January 23, 2014 Swarfeater, there is something wrong with your combination. My C-121 is set up basically the same as your 312-8 and could care less about grades and 8" or less of snow. Just goes and steer's just fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brandonozz 168 #19 Posted January 23, 2014 Sounds to me like there are two different problems Swarfeater is dealing with. With the blower on your having trouble getting the tractor to move forward because the weight of the blower hanging off the front is causing the rear tires to break traction. With the plow it seems the opposite is going on in that you don't have enough weight on the front tires to get the tractor to turn. I would say that getting some extra weight out back when using the blower and getting tri ribs or roller chain around the steer tires when using the plow should solve your turning problems. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KC9KAS 4,741 #20 Posted January 23, 2014 TT is trying to determine if he has a rear-end (differential) problem. swarfeater, the little 2 wheel drive Wheel Horses will do a hell of a job plowing snow, gravel, dirt...what ever you want, BUT you have to have the proper weight in the proper location for the job. In the winter of 77-78 I had a 1 wheel drive (no posi-track) Ford pickup with chains and 750# of weight in the bed. That truck went through some really big snow drifts....even some the 4 X 4's couldn't get through.....My point is traction & weight. Finally the clutch went out then I was stopped dead in my tracks! Again, everything mechanical must be operating properly too.....Fords or Wheel Horses! Good luck with your Horse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,131 #21 Posted January 23, 2014 TT is trying to determine if he has a rear-end (differential) problem. Exactly! Whether it's caused by mechanical failure - like an axle shaft bound in the differential end cap, stuck spider gears, etc. or by improper installation of the pinions - a locked differential will make it very hard to do anything other than go in a straight line. Put the front tires on a slippery surface and you might as well remove the steering wheel and sell it on eBay. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leeave96 487 #22 Posted January 23, 2014 Yes - I'm thinking something is wrong with the tractor too. Also wondering if the belt is slipping to the tranny. That tractor should push the blade and handle the blower just fine. Yes you need weight on the rear. I've pushed a ton of snow with my 314-8 and tons of gravel - to the point of abuse and the tractor just goes and goes! Not to stray off topic, but I see these CUT's, lots of JD's and Kubota BX tractors around here - but for whatever reason, I'm content using my Wheelhorse tractors (and a few other color garden tractors). It just seems a pity (for me) to spend the $$$$$'s on the CUT's and mow grass and occasionally push or blow some snow. I just can't bring myself to pull the trigger on one and leave my garden tractors parked - LOL! Back on topic - can you post some pics or videos of your tractor for a look-see? Good luck, Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can whlvr 993 #23 Posted January 24, 2014 I have been plowing with a wheelhorse for about 25 years,ive plowed 3 feet snow falls many times,its really herd when theres that much but ive done it,8 to 12 inches is very common where I live,8 inches doesn't even phase the horse,and we have some slope too,but when theres ice under it it makes it hard,even my full size bobcat has a hard time on blue ice,and its true 4 wheel drive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingrider 21 #24 Posted January 24, 2014 Here is my question What is a CUT?????????????????? Wingrider 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roscoemi 245 #25 Posted January 24, 2014 Compact utility tractor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
