Dump cart challenge x2

[wheeledhorseman 574]

I hesitated to use ‘resto’ in the title as neither of these carts will end up exactly factory like but to me it is a ‘resto’ in the sense of ‘returning to an earlier state’ i.e. functional, looking reasonable original to the casual eye, and having an active useful life in front of it again.

 

The story really began with the purchase of a 10 cu ft dump cart which looked sort of ok from the outside. What attracted me to this particular cart was that, unlike the few I’d seen (as they’re not exactly common here), this one is not the bolt together type but the tub has a one piece floor and a tub assembly that was welded up at the factory. I’m guessing that at least one other bidder was attracted to that as well so I ended up paying what was really too much for it. C’est la guerre!

 

 

It had stood so long out in the weather that both wheels had rusted through – hence the Westwood wheels that I had spare and to hand being fitted in the photo. Although the outside looks ok the inside tells a different story – I knew that when I bought it and as a project it was always going to be a challenge.

 

 

A few weeks later a haul of attachments came along which included a small dump cart which was going for scrap if nobody bid on it – you’ll see why in a moment. It had good wheels that I thought might do for the bigger cart but it turned out that the bigger cart has slightly wider wheels and tyres.

 

 

Like the bigger cart it looks quite good in the above photo but the rear end of the tub had basically rotted out.

 

 

Whilst considering the options my son came across what I think was probably a Westwood trailer that had been rotting away under a hedge in Devon. The owner didn’t want it so it was recovered despite being absolutely rotten because the wheels and tyres were in still good shape.

 

 

This meant that I now had a pair of non-original wheels but about the right size and appearance for the bigger dump cart so what to do with the smaller one as its wheels weren’t now going to be used?

 

 

Despite the condition of the tub it looked from some angles as being too good to scrap and so a second cart challenge was in the offing, well maybe, as it needed further investigation before committing to anything though my first thoughts were to scrap the tub and turn it into a water bowser which would be useful.

 

 

The cart had obviously been stored for some years upside down with the result that the axle mountings had filled up with water eventually causing the tub to rot through. It appears that it was then stored the right way up with the tub in the tipped position causing the rear end to rot out.

 

 

A good clean up revealed that much of the tub was still ok though a bit thinner than it had once been. Shot blasting it was a no-no or there’d have been very little left in places so it was long patient work with a dust mask and abrasive wheel in the angle grinder  and various other abrasive wheels to remove as much of the rust as was practically possible.. The tub was then anti rust treated with a phosphoric acid based product but what to do with the end that was by now paper thin and had a quite a few pinholes in it? Cutting the whole end out to weld a new panel in was a possibility but would have meant losing the ribs as I don’t have the skills or machinery needed to press ribs into a new panel.

 

 

I’d thought about using glass fiber matting but that would have looked clumsy, pretty awful in fact so decided to experiment with a fibre glass repair paste (basically resin mixed with finely chopped fibre)

 

 

A first layer was brushed onto the tub then sanded when cured. A second and third coat was added brushing in random directions aiming to achieve a uniform thickness after which as much of the end of the tub that could be save had become as rigid as the rest. This was followed by a coat of oxide primer to protect the inside of the tub. It was then time then for the next experimental stage which would decide the cart’s fate.

 

 

It was now possible to take the outside of the reinforced skin back to bright metal, treat it, fill the pinholes and again give it a coat of oxide primer to keep it good for now. That’s as far as I got by the end of the summer since which time I’ve been otherwise occupied and the two carts have been stored in the dry.

 

Seeing what other WH friends in the UK were getting up to made me feel guilty about not actually getting on with this so you can guess what my New Year resolution was. I actually began straight after Christmas by getting the wheels for each dump cart cleaned and painted as a warm up exercise but now the more challenging stuff is under way (well challenging for me at least).

 

 

Cutting the rotten parts out above the axle mounts revealed just how corroded the insides of these had become. Not an easy place to work but patient work with a hammer and sharp screwdriver as a kind of manual needle gun managed to dig out the carbuncles that had formed.

 

 

The supports are made from fairly thick steel but none the less once the carbuncles were removed the second side had pinholes. The metal was treated with anti-rust, one advantage of having two carts on the go being that while there’s waiting to do on one you can get on with the other.

 

 

Time to dismantle the larger cart (still with its temporary wheels on it). It’s difficult to date this cart, or the other one for that matter as neither has an id tag or any evidence that it ever had one. Based on the decals used on it the larger one is possibly from about 1978 in that it has the silver on black warning decal. The small cart has the small Wheel Horse on silver foil decal so it has me guessing 1960s ‘somewhen’. Perhaps someone can help on this.

More photos of the larger cart will follow as I start to work on the tub but this one shows the one piece floor that is part of the welded tub assembly and the undercarriage which from memory is different to the Agrifab style WH carts I’ve seen.

 

 

So that’s two carts on the go here now. I must be mad to be doing this! If you’re wondering how I intend to tackle the majorly rotted end of the small cart tub, I have an idea that involves steel but I’ll save that for later.

 

Andy

[meadowfield 2,570]

Nice to see you back on a restore Andy! Look forward to you fixing up them holes....

[Charlie Smith 142]

Good to see you have started the restore however two at once,

Brave man,

[KC9KAS 4,741]

You are doing a good job of repairing the WH trailers.

Thanks for all the photos and narrative on the repairs.

[Stigian 1,234]

Your not mad having two projects on the go Andy, I do it all the time, while I'm waiting for some welding to cool, I get on with something else.

[meadowfield 2,570]

hehe, any less than two projects is just wrong  Sometimes you need to jump between things to get some inspiration.

[Don1977 604]

Two projects that's not many. Wait until you have so many unfinshed projects that you can't remember them all. I think I have 5 or 6 can't remember but half of them right a the moment. Then there are a few more I have been thinking about that I haven't started yet.

[Anglo Traction 761]

 Glad I'm not the only one . 

Andy, I admire your tenacity in your intentions to bring these back from the 'Brink of Scrapping'........  to a 'Scrap Heap Challenge'   !.

 

I will follow this with interest as well, partly due to the fact that I was briefly tempted to bid on one of them..........

I stopped myself by realising I had too many projects, but primarily to see what processes you apply and try to second guess them  .

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Thanks for the interest guys. Like many of you I've actually got a fair few WH projects 'on the go' and the 'madness' reference was in terms of me buying and attempting to repair not one but two poor condition carts. Starting a thread on it was a good way of committing myself to seeing it through. It's a nice project in a way though in that there's scope for experimenting with some ideas and methods that I wouldn't use on a tractor project and in a way there's nothing to lose.

 

Spent time this week stripping, treating and priming the chassis components of both carts so nothing really photogenic to post. As Richard mentioned 'second guessing', and at risk of copying Mark's intro to his C4 project, here's one clue as to an idea I have for the smaller cart tub.

 

 

Discovered that I could bend 20 mm steel tube with a 22 mm pipe bender having first annealed the tube, so far so good!

 

Andy

[Anglo Traction 761]

Ah yes, would that be A Hilmor Tube Bender Andy?. That bent tube will give you a nicely formed,solid rear edge to weld to the Tub Shell

[Stigian 1,234]

Andy, are you replacing the entire top lip with tube or are you going to use the bit you have bent as a former for shaping steel repair panels around?

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Today made a top hitch bracket thingie for the larger cart. PO had taken it off and added a 'redneck' drawbar extension that sat inside the chassis rail. Can only imagine that it was to allow a tighter turning circle but as it pivoted inside the frame it had rather distorted the sides of the frame which straightened up in the press.

 

 

Don't have the dimensions for the original so worked based on what looked aesthetically ok.

 

Ah yes, would that be A Hilmor Tube Bender Andy?. That bent tube will give you a nicely formed,solid rear edge to weld to the Tub Shell

 

 

It's a Hilmor type but not make Richard. I have a good one of this type of bender that I use for copper plumbing work but with this project in mind I picked up the one above for a few quid at Netley Marsh as I didn't want to risk trashing the good one by using steel pipe in it. The tube will (hopefully) form the inner edge as you'll see in a moment.

 

 

Andy, are you replacing the entire top lip with tube or are you going to use the bit you have bent as a former for shaping steel repair panels around?

 

Here's the tube in place and a little sketch of how I'm hoping to do it Ian.

 

 

I've been itching to weld the tube to the tub but know that I really need to do a test piece first and probably some practice pieces as well before doing anything to the tub. I've got to go metal shopping before this though as I don't have any more 20mm tube or rod the right size. I may buy some square bar as well as the rod as it would make welding easier though would require grinding the curved profile.

 

Hope this makes sense, havent tried any of this before but the idea seems good and it will all be out of sight under the lip of the tub.

 

Andy

Edited January 12, 2014 by wheeledhorseman

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Thanks for the nudge about an update Richard so here it is:

 

The chassis parts are now done. They were stripped back, treated and primed at the shop but came home for the finish coat as it was too cold and damp for the paint to dry at any speed there.

 

 

Yes, that is the dining table and no, I didn’t get any paint on the carpet and yes they were dry and back to the shop in time for Sunday lunch to be served!

 

The axles of the carts came up much better than expected and although there’s pitting in places, the bearing surface areas are good enough to use on a trailer which was a bonus.

 

 

I decided to turn my attention to the larger cart tub for a while with a view to getting both tubs ready for welding work at the same time. The rear edge had rusted between the tub and outer frame badly enough to force the floor up between the welds.

 

 

It took pretty much a day’s patient work mostly with a hacksaw blade to clear out all the rust crud round the rear of the tub, between the tail board guides and tub and also underneath where a strengthening cross member is welded to the tub.

Round the rear edge it was possible to finish of the process by getting a little air powered disc grinder in between the expanded gap between the surfaces. With the shield casing removed (argh) its amazing how useful that little tool has been in cutting and grinding in awkward places. Once the tub was then hammered down to where it should be the results were encouraging.

 

The tailboard panel was a bit thin in places where it had rusted and badly bent looking as though a tyre had probably driven over it at some point. The simple solution would have been to fabricate a replacement but my sheet bender only handles up to 24†so decided to see if it was possible to save the original.

 

 

Working up and down with the press on a solid wood block the panel became pretty flat, the top folded edge was more of a challenge but also came out good enough to reuse. The panel was a bit flimsy where rusting had reduced its thickness in places along the top channel section and bottom fold but having de-rusted back to bright metal and anti-rust treated, fiberglass paste did an amazing job of restoring the rigidity even once sanded back to the original metal thickness.

 

 

Edge of panel rust treated and now reinforced with paste where it was thin at the edge.

 

 

The outline of the fiberglass reinforcement after sanding back is visible in the above photo and I was surprised how this returned the panel to being as rigid as it would have been new. The panel was then filled to get rid of the pitting and after a couple of coats of hi-build primer made it look the part again – It’s pleasing to have managed to save it rather than replacing it.

 

 

The tub was perhaps always going to be the greatest challenge in terms of saving as much of it as possible.

 

 

Angle grinder with abrasive wheel then aggressive wire wheel followed by using a dremel to clean out each and every pit created many holes through even where there were no signs of any rust on the paint on the outside. The floor was no better, in fact worse in places – shown here before the ‘dremelling out’ process.

 

 

Finally, after rust treating the surface, it was given two applications of fiberglass paste with a wide spreader.

 

 

The uneven coloration is due to thickness variation of the resin and the whole floor will need sanding back later before filling. The far end of the tub has been left for now as there’s going to be welding needed at that end.

 

The front panel is going to need replacing, it’s got to be removed to see how much of the folded over tabs it’s spot welded to can be saved.

 

 

My first thoughts were to get a complete new panel fabricated but now I’m toying with the idea of keeping the original folded top and just replacing the flat part.

 

Hopefully the next update will be the welding stage on both tubs.

 

Andy

 

 

 

[rexman72 210]

good restore project

[Anglo Traction 761]

Thanks for the update Andy, good methodical progress as always. Panel Work is a real challenge, especially welding thin sheet. Look forward to seeing your next update.

[Stigian 1,234]

Good to see an update Andy, it looks like the trailers will keep you busy for a while yet..

[meadowfield 2,570]

Looking good Andy :thumbs:

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Yes, sorry about the pregnant pause on this project guys but other things have tended to take priority like workshop shelving. A neighbour gave me all the shelving and racking out of a library bus he's converting into a camper. Too good an offer to turn down.

 

Anyway, made a bit more progress this weekend. It was slow for what was achieved but it's nice to be able to experiment with little ideas that could come in handy in future work. The shape of the tub on the smaller cart where I need to weld in two repair pieces is a compound curve so for the first time in my life I used one of these thingies.  I picked it up for a few pence off a toot stall at a show last summer with this very job in mind. 

 

 

It took two goes to get the full curve but these little thingies seem to do the job. Onto stage two and a bit of 4 x 4 fence post. Can you guess what it is yet?

 

 

The wood was too thick to cut using the scroll saw so it had to be done by hand using the vice jaw as a guide to keep the cut pretty square. Glad though not to have been using hardwood which would have been better for this.

 

The hand cut came out reasonably well and after a bit of finishing with a flap wheel in the pillar drill decided this might actually work. Four holes and four six inch nails as guides later and.

 

 

 It works surprisingly well even with the thick guage steel I'm using for this part of the repairs.

The pieces had been cut flat and very slightly oversized from a paper template taken from each hole. After patiently grinding a bit away here and there,,,,

 

 

the result was a pretty good fit though unfortunately it was necessary to grind more off one edge than needed for a perfect fit to allow the piece to hinge into place from inside the tub. The tapered shape of the axle supports meant it was not possible to put it into place from the other side.

 

This was meant only as a Heath Robinson press die to knock out two pieces but it would have gone on to make quite a number more had I needed them. Built from hardwood with thicker guides rather than the nails the idea could be useful another time. Certainly worth the effort.

 

Hope to get them welded into place tomorrow.

 

Andy

[meadowfield 2,570]

Nice and ingenuous, look forward to the next installment.... :thumbs:

[Digger 66 3,478]

 look forward to the next installment....

 

 

Me too ! 

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Another little update....

 

Forgot to say in the last post where the steel is coming from and why it's green. Well, rather than buy new steel I thought I'd be good and recycle from this.

 

 

Its an unused tray that would hold the pickaxe and shovel on an army truck and that I bought several of as surplus for a song. Amazing what the military throw away.

 

Anyway, the plates I pressed to the correct curve for the small cart are now welded in and I was pleased with the results.

 

 

So on with the larger cart and off with the rotten end except for the crossmember - the bit of wood was used as a guide for the cutting disc. I was glad I decided to keep this as the tub became pretty flexi with the rear panel removed it would have been awkward to deal with without the crossmember there as well.

 

 

First new side 'tab' welded in place.....

 

.

 

Second tab welded in and the new rear panel being checked for a precise fit.....

 

 

And then with the panel tacked in place the bottom tab which extends under the floor to strengthen it particularly where the support bracket will be remounted was welded in.

 

 

The original construcion was spot welded together but I drilled holes in the tabs then used the MIG.

 

Work on the rear of the tub took several afternoons - a lot of cutting out parts and patient welding. Couldn't help thinking that if this were a non-descript garden trailer then I'd just be plating it up to keep it useable, it's the fact that I want it to look as close as possible to original that is taking so much time. Gotta be worth it though I keep telling myself.

 

Andy

Edited February 19, 2014 by wheeledhorseman

[meadowfield 2,570]

Will be worth it in the end Andy!

[312Hydro 474]

Very nice fab skills on BOTH trailers! It's been great watching your restorations. Thanks for sharing and keep up the nice work! :thumbs:

[Mr. 856 170]

X2. I love watching this stuff. There is so much to be learned from pictures. Thanks for sharing.

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Another two weeks have passed and progress is slowly being made, in fact I can begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel! Thanks for the comments guys - I'm no expert in this, simply feeling my way, sometimes I spend half an hour or more just pondering the best way to set about the next bit.

 

 

The end panel was stiched to the crossmember on both sides which needed grinding off and filling as did the parts where I had to cut away strengthening ribs on the recycled steel.

 

 

The floor needed quite a lot of work to get it flat.

 

 

I think this is the first photo that shows the strengthening added where the support bracket fits - not factory I know but it won't really be seen underneath and means carrying heavy loads shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

 

Still have the outside faces to prep along with the top edge but no rush for now as it's still far too cold and damp to be thinking about final paint yet. So back to the tub cart.

 

 

Worst of the rot cut out and replaced and the tube reinfrocement welded in place. Holes were drilled in the top edge and inside edge of the tub and spot welds created using MIG.

 

 

After a bit of thought a change of plan and flat bar was used to form the outer part of the skeleton that will support the outer panels. Decided this would do a better job of supporting the foot thingy that keeps the tub just off the ground when it tips.

 

Another week and it should start looking like a tub cart again.

 

Andy